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05-15-2021, 06:08 AM
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Nobility
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 386
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05-18-2021, 08:40 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 5,772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
A local historian thinks that the elevation has to do with money, as the head of the family can bestow titles/orders on those who are willing to pay - something I suspected was the reason for the Castro-debacle a few years ago. Note that this was denied by the prince of Venice in the article.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Y.CII
IMO all these "pretender fights" happen because of money, benefits, advantages. And of course they wouldn't admit it  . |
At the same time, it is interesting that the monetary motives of men who insist on male-only or male-preferred inheritance are never subject to the same scrutiny.
In this case, the pretender fight was incited by the Aosta branch. The Savoy succession was not seriously disputed until Amedeo of Savoy-Aosta made himself a claimant in 2006. Likewise, there was no dispute over the headship of the royal house of Bourbon-Two Sicilies until Infante Alfonso of Spain, the founder of the Calabria branch, elevated himself as pretender to the defunct throne of the Two Sicilies in 1960.
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Y.CII
And it's always like that, when there are no male available or there are only daughter, people suddenly remember gender equality  . |
Didn't the head of the Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach family prefer to see his family go extinct rather than let the headship pass to his daughter? And even when the late King of Romania had only daughters, he decided to implement male-preference succession rather than gender equality. I agree it is disappointing that many male heads of families only remember gender equality when they fail to produce a son, but at least it sets a precedent.
The article by Jason Horowitz in the New York Times seems to be making the rounds on social media and discussion boards as "evidence" of the supposed stupidity of the Savoys in allowing girls to be heiresses, but after having read the full article, my opinion is that the writer's obvious skepticism is generally about the pretension of fighting for an imaginary crown, not about granting women equal rights to lead the family.
I think the reason that the bulk of the unflattering remarks are from or about the senior Savoy branch is that the Savoy-Aosta branch refused to grant an extended face-to-face interview, unlike their cousins. The article characterizes both branches as practicing "royal condescension" and describes the board supporting the Aostas as "unsanctioned".
Quote:
In the current fight over Vittoria, the Aosta have turned to an unsanctioned “Board of the Senators’ Council in the Kingdom,” also known as “The Consulta.” Referring to House of Savoy bylaws, the Aosta sympathizers deemed Vittoria’s ascension invalid. Among other things, they argue the law should only be changed when the monarchy is restored.
Prince Aimone, Duke of Puglia, declined to meet for an interview in the Tuscan country estate of his father, Prince Amedeo, Duke of Aosta, who was reportedly punched twice in the face by his cousin, Vittorio Emanuele, at the 2004 wedding of the future King Felipe VI of Spain. Soon after that altercation, Amedeo claimed to be the legitimate Duke of Savoy.
“To put it mildly, it is not a good relationship,” Aimone said in a phone interview. But he said he wanted to avoid a public shouting match with his cousins “over something that doesn’t exist. I try to be more dignified if possible given the great responsibility of such a name.”
Regal condescension runs in the family.
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05-18-2021, 10:09 AM
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Majesty
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 8,845
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I think it is important to stress, as I wrote in another forum, that Prince Vittorio Emanuele has not changed the order of succession to the throne of the Kingdom of Italy, which no longer exists and which neither he nor his son is currentlly claiming as far as I know. Instead, he has proposed a change to the succession to the headship of the House of Savoy, which is separate from occupying the throne of Italy and implies a series of prerogatives that, as Marengo said, may have financial implications, including the grand mastership of the Savoy orders.
The succession to the Italian throne was regulated by the Albertine Statute which could not be changed unilaterally by the King when it was in force (again, it ceased to be in force with the creation of the Italian Republic). The succession to the position of head of the (1,000-year-old) House of Savoy, on the other hand, is governed by the house laws, so it is that body of rules that we must look at to decide whether the Savoy-Aosta claim is valid or not.
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06-01-2021, 07:35 PM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 5,772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Addapalla
As one can see in the appalling NYT interview of the older daughter Vittoria, she presented herself as a shallow, vain and tactless air-head who lacks refinement if not dignity. Very much like her father and her grandfather, it seems.
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The statements made by Vittoria di Savoia in the New York Times interview of her and her father were the following. (Please do not hesitate to inform me if I have committed any inadvertent omissions.)
Quote:
“It [the amendment of the succession] was the best gift he could give me,” Vittoria [said].
“A great antifascist,” echoed Vittoria, who called her [Queen Marie-José] a role model.
Vittoria, when asked whether she thought Italy was ready to have her as a queen, or head of the family, said she had heard “Italy is not really progressive.” “But” she added, “they will learn.”
When asked if she wanted to be Italy’s queen, she called the concept “abstract” and said she is just trying to figure out what she wants to do in life.
“I don’t want to seem different,” she said. “I’m Vittoria.”
“I don’t even pay any attention to it,” Vittoria said of her detractors.
“It's [the responsibility is] a lot,” she said.
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The full interview:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/09/w...y-royalty.html
One can see and evaluate for oneself whether the statements are "appalling".
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06-02-2021, 06:23 AM
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Aristocracy
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Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Durham, United States
Posts: 134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria
One can see and evaluate for oneself
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Exactly! Thank you. And some people did so in the article's comment section.
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06-05-2021, 06:36 PM
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Majesty
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 8,710
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Who is the lady in green? Looks like she is a godmother or something comparable.
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06-05-2021, 06:53 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 12,808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody
Who is the lady in green? Looks like she is a godmother or something comparable.
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I found it a bit awkward that the godmother had to upheld a tag with "Laura" so that the Bishop knew her name.
At my confirmation I went forward to the Bishop and my godfather presented me after which the Bishop repeated the name while putting Chrism on my forehead and "be sealed with the Holy Spirit".
Maybe it is a Covid measure. The mumbling through the facemask is probably not audible for the Bishop and they decided to have each confirmant with a name tag.
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06-08-2021, 03:01 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: -, Greece
Posts: 23,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody
Who is the lady in green? Looks like she is a godmother or something comparable.
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She is her sister Vittoria.
Prince Emanuele Filibarto gave an interview to Insider
https://www.insider.com/prince-of-ve...archies-2021-6
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06-25-2021, 05:29 AM
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Nobility
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 386
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07-09-2021, 12:37 PM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: -, Greece
Posts: 23,580
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07-10-2021, 05:56 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: -, Greece
Posts: 23,580
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07-12-2021, 12:00 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: , Germany
Posts: 70,311
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Clotilde (pictured with Maxime Roy, French screenwriter and director) attended the Kering Women In Motion Awards as part of the Cannes Film Festival yesterday, July 11:
** gettyimages gallery **
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07-13-2021, 07:47 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: , Germany
Posts: 70,311
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Clotilde at the Cannes Film Festival today, July 13:
** gettyimages gallery ** rex gallery **
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07-14-2021, 06:41 AM
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Majesty
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 7,396
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Front page of Point de vue with an interview of Emanuele Filiberto .
On old picture of him and Clotilde.
He speaks about his friendship with Johnny Halliday , about tue Duc of Aoste and mainly about the future of his Girls.
From Noblesse et Royautés , very bad critics !
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07-15-2021, 06:54 AM
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Majesty
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 7,396
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This is not the Cover of Point de Vue ...
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07-15-2021, 07:15 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: , Germany
Posts: 70,311
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What do you mean? I'm slightly confused. I did not write anything about the cover but about the article shared on their website.
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