HRH Duke Carlos Javier (1970- ) and the Royal House of Bourbon-Parma: August 2010-

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Katrianna

Interesting announcement. I wonder if Jaime and his family will attend? Jaime is the Dutch Ambassador to the Vatican. He would be seen as supporting his brother's Carlist Claim to the Spanish Throne in contradiction to the alliance of the Netherlands and Spain, with the Netherlands recognizing the present ruling Monarch and his family. It's hard to believe Carlos has decided to carry on the Carlist Claim, he should have left it up to his Uncle Sixtus.

There is no "claim". The Duke of Parma sees himself as the standardbearer of the Carlist Tradition. There is no any active encouragement to deny the King of Spain his throne. It is the same as the Duke of Calabria attending events in Sicily and Naples, seeing himself as the claimant to the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies. There is no any desire to overturn the Government in Rome or so.

[Marengo]

Duke Carlos released a statement in 2014 in which he says that he is the lawful heir of the Spanish throne. A few days later he clarified through a spokesperson that he does not claim the Spanish throne but that he also does not reject it.

What Carlos does is his own business of course. But Prince Jaime officially represents the Netherlands abroad. For King Willem-Alexander the issue must be a nuisance and an embarrassement. The duke only re-vived the claim after the abdication of his aunt Queen Beatrix.

The Carlist claims of the Parma's are shaky at best. Indeed, best left to the nutty Prince Sixtus.

[GracieGiraffe]

He also referred to his daughters as "Infantas" in that press release.

Marengo, fortunately for his brother Jaime, I don't think many outside of the very select group of world royal watchers know what Duke Carlos is doing or claiming, or cares. I doubt it will make the mainstream press in any form. I think Jaime can attend without really any backlash.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Marengo

[...]

What Carlos does is his own business of course. But Prince Jaime officially represents the Netherlands abroad.

[...]

Prince Jaime de Bourbon de Parme is the Ambassador of the Kingdom of the Netherlands at the Holy See. His possible private attendance at a familial event in the framework of the Carlist Tradition is not against any interest of the State of the Netherlands.

In fact there is no difference with the private attendance of Prince Jaime at the annual events in Parma and Piacenza. Also here he is not acting against any interest of the State of the Netherlands.

I would say: laissez faire, laissez passer (let it go). No one takes it serious, maybe not even the Bourbon-Parmas themselves.

[Lee-Z]

Originally Posted by eya

Don Carlos Javier and doña Ana Maria of B-P announce The celebration of a Te Deum in Barcelona next October to officiallly present his first son, Carlos Enrique.

You think his other "first" son will be invited?
sorry, couldn't resist

[Duc_et_Pair]

In essence it is a religious event, a Te Deum, and the Duke will show the infant prince to the Carlists.

The head of state (Queen Juliana) and various members of the Royal House have been present at quite carlist-coloured baptisms in Lignières.

The head of state (Queen Juliana) has officially included the then future carlist pretender during her State Visit to President Pompidou of France.

The King of Spain (Don Juan Carlos) included the carlist pretender in his contra-prestation during his State Visit to the Netherlands.

The head of state (Queen Beatrix) used Noordeinde Palace and the state airplane for funeral arrangements of the carlist pretender.

If all this was no problem, then also the possible attendance of Ambassador Prince Jaime at this Te Deum is nothing. Even Ambassadors have free time to attend Mass...

[GracieGiraffe]

Originally Posted by Lee-Z

You think his other "first" son will be invited?
sorry, couldn't resist

I was wondering that myself

[Katrianna]

I can see the let it be, but if there's doubt that the Bourbon Parmas take the Carlist movement seriously, why the official pronouncements by Carlos?
I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being serious in questioning. Was this something that perhaps his father wished or perhaps to keep Sixtus in check? Didn't Carlos Hugo tone down his Carlist position in his later years or am I mistaken?

[Duc_et_Pair]

In 2003 the Duke of Parma suddenly renewed the carlist claim during a doom-and-gloom speech in Arbonne (in French Pays Basque) to Carlist supporters. With a quite prophetic eye (we can now say in 2016) already then the Duke saw 4 major crises coming:
1 - a political crisis with parties maintaining a partisan attitude instead putting the interest of the common good first;
2 - a crisis in states, with regions drifting apart in their zest for more autonomy or even independence;
3 - a social crisis with a deepening gap between the haves and the have-nots which will lead to uncontrollable migrations;
4 - a mondial crisis of terrorism (the Twin Towers were attacked and the Second Gulf War was in full scale then).

We tend to see Carlism as fighting the rightful King, but the Duke of Parma saw it more as a "movement" with a quite leftist agenda showing a too optimistic view in the goodness of mankind. So it was more a strange mix of maintaining the Carlist Tradition and encouraging "change", without being specific.

All the four warnings uttered in 2003 have come true, I must admit. The sort of "enlighted and progressive" Carlism the Duke wanted has caused a deep rift in that House. His late mother, his eldest sister and his brother all desavoued him for being "a traitor to true Carlism" (= the arch conservative, extreme right and ultra-Catholic version).

When I hear the current Duke or read about him, I see that he has been infected with the unrealistic, sometimes surreal and esoteric worldviews of his mother Irene and his father Carlos-Hugo. With really aiming to the throne of Spain, all this has nothing to do.

When Carlos Hugo died, the King and Queen of Spain officially sent their condoleances and ordered a wreath of flowers with their royal monograms to be laid at his coffin. So the Dutch and Spanish Royal Houses seem to take it lightly and with pragmatism.

Also the King of Spain has a lot of titles which are part of the royal patrimonium but have no factual importance anymore.

[Cory]

The connection with the Duchy of Parma is far more pragmatic for the Duke himself. He attended different eve ts especially linked with the Order.
Will his youngest son be baptized in Parma or Piacenza?

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Cory

The connection with the Duchy of Parma is far more pragmatic for the Duke himself. He attended different eve ts especially linked with the Order.
Will his youngest son be baptized in Parma or Piacenza?

The two sisters of the young Prince Carlos Enrique have been baptized in Parma respectively Piacenza. When the Duke of Parma wants to stress the continuation of the Carlist tradition, maybe a baptism in Spain lies at hand? We will see. The tradition is that the heir to the Dukedom of Parma has the title Prince of Piacenza. So it possibly it will be Piacenza.

Her Royal Highness Princess Luisa Irene Constance Anne Marie de Bourbon de Parme was baptized in the Battistero di Parma on Saturday September 29th 2012 by Monsignore Enrico Solmi, the Bishop of Piacenza. Picture.

Her Royal Highness Princess Cecilia Maria Johanna Beatrix de Bourbon de Parme was baptized in the Duomo di Piacenza on Saturday April 5th 2014 by Monsignore Gianni Ambrosio, the Bishop of Piacenza. Picture.

[Cory]

There is no statement yet with the details of the Baptism of the youngest child of the Duke.

[Marengo]

Posts about the baptism of Princess Gloria of Bourbon-Parma has been moved here.

[eya]

Yesterday Prince Carlos de Bourbon de Parme and Princess Annemarie introduced their son Carlos (born 26-05-2016), Prince of Piacenza to the people of Piacenza.

PPE Agency

[maria-olivia]

Only in the Chuch not at the balcony of the City as Queen Astrid did in Liège with your youngest Son Albert , Prince of Liège.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

Only in the Chuch not at the balcony of the City as Queen Astrid did in Liège with your youngest Son Albert , Prince of Liège.

That was a different time and situation: the authorities of the City of Liège officially welcomed their head of state, the Queen and the infant Prince.

I think we can not expect the republican City of Piacenza to organize an official welcome and allow a manifestation at the City Hall.

[sjetajiem]

Originally Posted by eya

Yesterday Prince Carlos de Bourbon de Parme and Princess Annemarie introduced their son Carlos (born 26-05-2016), Prince of Piacenza to the people of Piacenza.

PPE Agency

The little prince was born on April 24th 2016

[MAfan]

Originally Posted by eya

Yesterday Prince Carlos de Bourbon de Parme and Princess Annemarie introduced their son Carlos (born 26-05-2016), Prince of Piacenza to the people of Piacenza.

PPE Agency

Also in attendance were Prince Jaime, Count of Bardi, and Princess Maria Teresa (aunt to Duke Carlos and Prince Jaime).

[maria-olivia]

Eye wrote Prince Carlos showed his son to the people of Piacenza.

[Duc_et_Pair]

This was no baptism so it indeed was a showing to the people of Piacenza. I think this tradition has disappeared in almost all monarchies.