HRH Duke Carlos Javier (1970- ) and the Royal House of Bourbon-Parma: August 2010-

[eya]

Indeed!!!! Baby Year 2016

[PetraHel]

Originally Posted by TheRoyalCourtisane

That makes it 7 Royal ladies who are now pregnant

7? I know about 5 - two in Sweden, two in Parma family and Queen Jetsun Pema. Who are the other 2?

[eya]

I guess that means the wifes of Archduke Imre of Austria and Lord Frederick of Windsor.

[sjetajiem]

Lord and Lady Frederick Windsor
Archduke and Archduchess Imre and Kathleen of Habsburg-Lothringen

[PetraHel]

Yes, I see. Thank you. 2016 will be really exciting for us royal watchers and for royal families themselves!:-)

[Biri]

Great news! Maybe a boy?
I would love also another baby for their sister Carolina...

[HereditaryPrincess]

Congratulations to the couple! We royal watchers have an exciting year ahead of us.

[An Ard Ri]

HRH princess Sybil de Bourbon Parme attended the Ingraham Debuts New collection at LARS BOLANDER'S STUDIO 1696 Pop-Up Shop Event at West Palm Beach.

PPE

PPE Agency

[Londena]

Buitenechtelijke zoon prins Carlos jr. wil een Bourbon de Parme worden | ThePostOnline

The illegitimate son of the Duke of Parma has applied to use the Bourbon-Parma last name. Though despite what the article says, he cannot become the new Duke of Parma.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Londena

Buitenechtelijke zoon prins Carlos jr. wil een Bourbon de Parme worden | ThePostOnline

The illegitimate son of the Duke of Parma has applied to use the Bourbon-Parma last name. Though despite what the article says, he cannot become the new Duke of Parma.

One could wait for that claim....

[Duc_et_Pair]

From the beginning on there was a thick fog around the pregnancy of Brigitte Klynstra. The Prince communicated that it was "an independent decision by Ms Klynstra to become a mother" (??). And in the article the Prince said that it brings memories back to "a very hurtful time". The mystery only gets bigger. There were rumours about IVF. Anyway, Hugo has a very big chance to become a Prince de Bourbon de Parme indeed. Any biological child with a known and proven father can request to get the surname from the father. This request can be made from the age of 18 until the age of 22 is reached (Civic Code). When no request is made in that period, the existing surname (here it is Klynstra) is considered unchangeable and permanent. Nobility is hereditary, also for children born outside marriage (Nobility Act). When the surname is allowed to the biological son, the title of Prince can not be debued.

[Londena]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

From the beginning on there was a thick fog around the pregnancy of Brigitte Klynstra. The Prince communicated that it was "an independent decision by Ms Klynstra to become a mother" (??). And in the article the Prince said that it brings memories back to "a very hurtful time". The mystery only gets bigger. There were rumours about IVF. Anyway, Hugo has a very big chance to become a Prince de Bourbon de Parme indeed. Any biological child with a known and proven father can request to get the surname from the father. This request can be made from the age of 18 until the age of 22 is reached (Civic Code). When no request is made in that period, the existing surname (here it is Klynstra) is considered unchangeable and permanent. Nobility is hereditary, also for children born outside marriage (Nobility Act). When the surname is allowed to the biological son, the title of Prince can not be debued.

A strange statement indeed. The deed always involves two people.

[Lee-Z]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

And in the article the Prince said that it brings memories back to "a very hurtful time".

was this in another article about the matter?

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is in the same article:

"I have learned that Hugo Klynstra has made such a request. At my initiative that request is now subject of a proceeding. For me it is about a personal matter with a verdrietige (= can be translated as sorrowful, hurtful, woeful, plaintive) background. So I refrain from a further explanation and hope the media will respect the privacy and therefore the calm (peace, quiet) of my family life."

So apparently Hugo Klynstra has made a formal request to Department of Justice, to have his surname changed. Such a change needs to be approved by Royal Decree, signed by Hugo's first cousin once removed: the King...

In the Civic Code the change of surnames is pretty difficult, I must say. The lawmaker clearly wants to disencourage people from starting changing surnames. What are the grounds for the Prince to start a procedure? The Civic Code says that an adult (Hugo Klynstra) can only start a request for the surname of his parent when "after the end of the marrriage or the relationship-outside-marriage there has been a period in which the parent in question (here: the Prince) has been the tutor, the carer for the requestant". The data from the municipal registration must show that the requestant has been living together with the parent in question. By my knowledge the Prince has never had a relationship with Ms Klynstra when Hugo was born neither has he ever lived with Hugo.

This booklet (in Dutch) gives all rules: https://www.justis.nl/Images/brochur...123-591289.pdf

When the Department of Justice agrees with the request for a name change, then Hugo can request the nobility too, as the Nobility Act says that nobility is also hereditary for children born outside marriage. The nobility is connected to a surname. There is no Prince Klynstra. There is a Prince de Bourbon de Parme. When the request for the surname-change is given, the request can be made for the nobility. (Sometimes people only want the surname and have no interest in the nobility, and are therefore not known with a title).

[JR76]

What a coincidence given our discussion on the subject just a few days ago. Thank you, btw, for your kind explanations about it.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app

[melina premiere]

Has the prince other children?

[Londena]

Originally Posted by melina premiere

Has the prince other children?

He has two daughters and his wife is pregnant. :)

[Duc_et_Pair]

The problem with surname and recognition is the same as with Delphine Boël in Belgium. In both countries 'only a change' is not enough. There needs to have been a certain real parentship. For Belgian law it is simple: Jonkheer Jacques Boël is the father of Delphine. He has recognized her, she has lived under his roof, in everything he has been the de-facto father, Delphine is his heir. That is why it is not simple to point to someone and say: he once slept with my mother, I want his surname and his recognition that he is my father.

When Hugo was born, the Court of Justice in the city of Zwolle (East of the Netherlands) acknowledged the parenthood but both parents agreed there would be no legal recognition and no parentship between the biological father and the son. Therefore in the municipal registry only the mother was registered. More or less the same procedure as when the father is "just" a donor, or when the father is known (an unintented or intended pregnancy) while there never were plans to cohabitate or have a relationship.

Hugo Klynstra is the biological son of the Duke of Parma. No one fights that and the Duke himself made clear Hugo was his son. But there has never been a cohabitation or a relationship between the mother and the father since the birth of Hugo. The Duke of Parma has never executed parental rights, he has not raised, educated or tutored Hugo. They have never lived together. From the very birth of Hugo, this has been the agreed and chosen situation between Hugo's mother and his father. So Hugo needs to have arguments for his claim on the surname and title.

[maria-olivia]

I hope the actual Duke of Parma will not have more problems with Prince Sixte , his Uncle

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

I hope the actual Duke of Parma will not have more problems with Prince Sixte , his Uncle

Prince Sixte-Henri already does not recognize his nephews' marriages to Annemarie Gualthérie van Weezel respectively to Viktória Cservenyák because both fail to comply with the Carlist tradition.

According to Sixte-Henri, I think the line is:

x Carlos de Bourbon de Parme (1970)
(non-dynastical marriage with Annemarie Gualthérie van Weezel)

x Jaime de Bourbon de Parme (1972)
(non-dynastical marriage with Viktória Cservenyák)

1 Sixte-Henri de Bourbon de Parme (1940)
(unmarried)

2 Jean of Luxembourg (1921)
(married to Princess Joséphine-Charlotte of Belgium)

x Henri of Luxembourg (1955)
(non-dynastical marriage with María Teresa Mestre)

x Jean of Luxembourg (1957)
(non-dynastical marriage with Hélène Vestur)

x Guillaume of Luxembourg (1963)
(non-dynastical marriage with Sibylla Weiller)

3 Michel de Bourbon de Parme (1926)
(married to Princess Yolande de Broglie)

x Philippe de Bourbon de Parme (1949)
(non-dynastical marriage with Annette Smith)

4 Éric de Bourbon de Parme (1953)
(married to Lydia Countess Holstein af Ledreborg)

5 Michel de Bourbon de Parme (1989)
(unmarried)

6 Henri de Bourbon de Parme (1991)
(unmarried)

7 Charles-Emmanuel de Bourbon de Parme (1961)
(married to Constance des barons de Ravinel et du Saint-Empire)

8 Amaury de Bourbon de Parme (1991)
(unmarried)