HRH Duke Amedeo (1943-2021) and the Savoy-Aosta Family


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MAfan said:
The trial was about the question if it is allowed to Amedeo and Aimone Savoia Aosta to call themselves only "di Savoia" or "Savoia" or "Aosta" or if, instead and as it was claimed by Vittorio Emanuele and Emanuele Filiberto, they should always call themselves "Savoia Aosta", because that is theie legal surname.

The decision of the Court of Appeal of Firenze doesn't change in any way Amedeo and Aimone's surname: it simply says that they are allowed to call themselves "Amedeo di Savoia" and "Aimone di Savoia", if they want to do so, and are not forced to call themselves only and exclusively "Savoia Aosta".
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It's important to mention the Di in their surname.
 
Mbruno said:
Can they now use "di Savioa" in their Italian documents ?
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In official documents or when it is required that they use their full legal surname (i.e. in their ID card or passport), no, they will have to use the surname "Savoia Aosta". But otherwise they can call themselves simply "di Savoia".
 
I am okay with the surname Di Savoia or Di Savoia-Aosta but I (but who am I?) feel not comformatble with the Duke of Aosta usurping the title Duke of Savoy. That belongs to Prince Vittorio Emanuele and then goes to his son Prince Emanuele Filiberto.

I find that not chique and a needless grievance. Especially since Prince Emanuele Filiberto has no son. Automatically once the little Prince Umberto will become the 28th Duke of Savoy and 7th Duke of Aosta and be the senior male agnate of the House of Savoia.

Of course assuming that Prince Emanuele Filiberto and Princess Clotilde will not get a son anymore.
 
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Where are the given names (nome battesimale) on that document? On my Dutch documents all my surnames are visible. Maybe it is printed at the reverse side of the document?

Amedeo Umberto Giorgio Paolo Costantino Elena Fiorenzo Maria Zvonimir di Savoia-Aosta
 
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You can see the surname and name printed at the right of the photo in the passport. The surname is listed as "Savoia Aosta", the given name only as "Amedeo".

A precisation: not all the given names necessarily has to be written in the passport or ID card. It depends on the way they were listed in the birth certificate: if all the names are listed in the birth certificate all in a row, then they will be all listed in the other documents; but if the given names are separated by a comma in the birth certificate, then only the first one(s) before the first comma are listed in the other documents.
I.e. my two given names in the birth certificate are separated by a comma, so in my passport and ID card and other documents only the first one is listed.
I suppose, by reading that Amedeo's passport lists only his first name, that also his names were separated by commas in the birth certificate, so that only the first one of them can be found in documents.
 
The Prince can use the Surname Di Savoia which belong to his Family. The decision restores a right of the Prince.
 
Cory said:
The Prince can use the Surname Di Savoia which belong to his Family. The decision restores a right of the Prince.
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That is your interpretation of it, based on wishes and not on law or fact.
The court has ruled that he can use a version of his name if he wishes, but formally, he is Amedeo (insert names) di Savoia-Aosta, and that's an end to the matter. The name 'di Savoia' belongs to another branch of his family, and that's how it stands.

I have two last names, but mostly only use one of them in most settings. That does not negate the fact that on official documents, passports etc, I have to use both. That goes for the Duke of Aosta and his family, just like it does for everyone else. If he wants to be known as Amedeo Savoia informally he is free to do so, but as I read the judgment, he is not entitled to have his name formally changed from 'di Savoia-Aosta' to 'di Savoia'.

To try to spin this as some win in the battle over headship of the Italian Royal Family is foolish and ill-informed. As the case stands today, with a living Crown Prince and Hereditary Prince, the branches are as they are. Thereafter however, I guess royalists will spend their energy debating whether primogeniture trumps progress, with some favouring longing for the past, and some looking to an equal future.

Oh, to be in Paris, now that spring is here ..
 
LadyRohan said:
That is your interpretation of it, based on wishes and not on law or fact.
The court has ruled that he can use a version of his name if he wishes, but formally, he is Amedeo (insert names) di Savoia-Aosta, and that's an end to the matter. The name 'di Savoia' belongs to another branch of his family, and that's how it stands.

I have two last names, but mostly only use one of them in most settings. That does not negate the fact that on official documents, passports etc, I have to use both. That goes for the Duke of Aosta and his family, just like it does for everyone else. If he wants to be known as Amedeo Savoia informally he is free to do so, but as I read the judgment, he is not entitled to have his name formally changed from 'di Savoia-Aosta' to 'di Savoia'.

To try to spin this as some win in the battle over headship of the Italian Royal Family is foolish and ill-informed. As the case stands today, with a living Crown Prince and Hereditary Prince, the branches are as they are. Thereafter however, I guess royalists will spend their energy debating whether primogeniture trumps progress, with some favouring longing for the past, and some looking to an equal future.

Oh, to be in Paris, now that spring is here ..
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I don't want to get into this debate, but let me just say that succession is not that straightforward. The fact that the last king has a firstborn son who is still alive doesn't automatically make that firstborn son the heir (or make the eldest son of that firstborn son the next in line). That is because all monarchies and /or royal houses have additional rules under which a person who would be in the line of succession by birth can be nonetheless removed from the succession, often together with all of his descendants. Without getting into the merit of the argument, that is what the Duke of Aosta claims to be the case with respect to his cousins.
 
Mbruno said:
I don't want to get into this debate, but let me just say that succession is not that straightforward. The fact that the last king has a firstborn son who is still alive doesn't automatically make that firstborn son the heir (or make the eldest son of that firstborn son the next in line). That is because all monarchies and /or royal houses have additional rules under which a person who would be in the line of succession by birth can be nonetheless removed from the succession, often together with all of his descendants. Without getting into the merit of the argument, that is what the Duke of Aosta claims to be the case with respect to his cousins.
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Apart from the question who is the head of the family, both cousins Vittorio Emanuele and Amedeo of course are Savoias, they are both direct and legitimate male agnates of a long line of Dukes of Savoy.

It is not that a surname is usurped like Bernadotte or Nassau, both princes simply ARE Savoys.
 
Mbruno said:
I don't want to get into this debate, but let me just say that succession is not that straightforward. The fact that the last king has a firstborn son who is still alive doesn't automatically make that firstborn son the heir (or make the eldest son of that firstborn son the next in line). That is because all monarchies and /or royal houses have additional rules under which a person who would be in the line of succession by birth can be nonetheless removed from the succession, often together with all of his descendants. Without getting into the merit of the argument, that is what the Duke of Aosta claims to be the case with respect to his cousins.
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The trial was certainly not about dynastic rights but about the surname Di Savoia.
 
Cory said:
The trial was certainly not about dynastic rights but about the surname Di Savoia.
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There are no dynastic rights in the Italian Republic, so an Italian court wouldn't be qualified to rule on that matter, would it ? My post was a reply tp LadyRohan's statement that, "with a living Crown Prince and heir", the family branches and headship of the royal house "are what they are".
 
Mbruno said:
There are no dynastic rights in the Italian Republic, so an Italian court wouldn't be qualified to rule on that matter, would it ? My post was a reply tp LadyRohan's statement that, "with a living Crown Prince and heir", the family branches and headship of the royal house "are what they are".
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Obviously Italian courts can't decide on dynastic right of a Throne that dies not exist at the moment
After King Umberto II dynastic right had only Prince Amedeo and his male descendants.
 
Cory said:
Obviously Italian courts can't decide on dynastic right of a Throne that dies not exist at the moment
After King Umberto II dynastic right had only Prince Amedeo and his male descendants.
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In essence there is no kingdom of Italy, no Italian crown and no Italian succession. What Vittorio Emanuele and Amedeo are: dynasts of one of Europe's eldest and most illustrious royal dynasties.

Whether or not King Umberto II was not supportive of his son's marriage to Marina Doria, in the end he did not exclude his son by formal decision. To keep the unity it is best to let time do healing work: the simple fact that Prince Emanuele Filiberto has no son automatically ends the "dispute" between the Duke of Savoy and the Duke of Aosta.

Their respective sons, Emanuele Filiberto and Aimone, seem to have a normal relationship. Very much mirroring the relationship of Jean d'Orléans with his Spanish cousin Luis-Alfonso.

Of course the dispute will explode again when Emanuele Filiberto acts alike the late King of Michael: "Dynastic statute? My *ss! I want my daughter to become the next Head!" Then Aimone or Umberto will claim to be the 28th (!) consecutive Savoia being the Duke of Savoy.
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
In essence there is no kingdom of Italy, no Italian crown and no Italian succession. What Vittorio Emanuele and Amedeo are: dynasts of one of Europe's eldest and most illustrious royal dynasties.

Whether or not King Umberto II was not supportive of his son's marriage to Marina Doria, in the end he did not exclude his son by formal decision. To keep the unity it is best to let time do healing work: the simple fact that Prince Emanuele Filiberto has no son automatically ends the "dispute" between the Duke of Savoy and the Duke of Aosta.

Their respective sons, Emanuele Filiberto and Aimone, seem to have a normal relationship. Very much mirroring the relationship of Jean d'Orléans with his Spanish cousin Luis-Alfonso.

Of course the dispute will explode again when Emanuele Filiberto acts alike the late King of Michael: "Dynastic statute? My *ss! I want my daughter to become the next Head!" Then Aimone or Umberto will claim to be the 28th (!) consecutive Savoia being the Duke of Savoy.
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HRH Prince Aimone has no dialogue at all with his distant cousin Emanuele-Filiberto.
 
Cory said:
HRH Prince Aimone has no dialogue at all with his distant cousin Emanuele-Filiberto.
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Creative use of the word ‘distant’ to again campaign an agenda, Cory. Could you for once prove these allegations of ‘no dialogue at all’, or simply desist?
 
Please, stay on topic.
This is NOT the proper thread for discussions about the succession to the Headship of the House of Savoy and neither about the relationships between other members of the family.
Thanks for understanding and cooperation.
 
Which is now the official site of the Duke?

Any news about Prince Amedeo's health?
 
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Both Vittorio Emanuele (the Duke of Savoy) and Amedeo (the Duke of Aosta) are in frail state, sad to say.
 
The Count and Countess Arrivabene Valenti Gonzaga, born Princess Bianca of Savoy-Aosta celebrate today their 30th wedding anniversary and are photographed at home in Venice with their 5 children

https://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/tcx090116arivabene001.jpg

Viola Arrivabene Valenti Gonzaga and Vera Arrivabene Valenti Gonzaga attends at the launch of Pomellato Balera Party Event on 22 September in Milan

https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...ends-launch-of-pomellato-picture-id1038013974
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...elli-and-vera-valenti-of-picture-id1038014200

Viola and Vera Arrivabene in Paris for the Christian Dior fashion show today

https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...ian-dior-show-as-part-of-picture-id1039296584

Vera and Viola Arrivabene attend the Roger Vivier Presentation Spring/Summer 2019 during Paris Fashion Week on 27 September

https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...nd-the-roger-vivier-2019-picture-id1041874920
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...resentation-springsummer-picture-id1041874932
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...resentation-springsummer-picture-id1041874928

On the occasion of the celebrations closing the centenary of the World War and the festive anniversary of the Italian Armed Forces, Princess Bianca , representing the Royal Family, accompanied by her husband Count Giberto Arrivabene Valenti Gonzaga and daughter Vera Arrivabene Valenti Gonzaga, intervened at the religious and military ceremony held at the Redipuglia Military Memorial on 4 November

https://www.crocerealedisavoia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/redpuglia2.jpg
https://www.crocerealedisavoia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/redipuglia18a.jpg
https://www.crocerealedisavoia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/redpuglia4.jpg
https://www.crocerealedisavoia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/redpuglia3.jpg

video

https://www.crocerealedisavoia.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/VIDEO-2018-11-04-20-26-42.mp4?_=1
 
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.

Viola and Vera Arrivabene attended the Christian Dior show as part of the Paris Fashion Week Womenswear Fall/Winter 2019/2020 today, February 26:


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 **
 
.

Today, February 28, Viola and Vera Arrivabene attended the Day Dream Vivier Press Day during Paris Fashion Week:


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 **
 
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