HRH Duke Amedeo (1943-2021) and the Savoy-Aosta Family

[Duc_et_Pair]

The late Duke of Aosta considered himself the chef of the former Royal House. Even if Vittorio Emanuele and his son were considered the chef, Amedeo knew he and his son were at least the undisputed future chef, also for the Savoy supporters:

0. Vittorio Emanuele di Savoia, Duke of Savoy
1. Emanuele Filiberto di Savoia
--. Amedeo di Savoia-Aosta, 5th Duke of Aosta
2. Aimone di Savoia-Aosta, 6th Duke of Aosta
3. Umberto di Savoia-Aosta
4. Amedeo di Savoia-Aosta

But with the unilateral action by Vittorio Emanuele to put his two granddaughters before Amedeo and Aimone, the "conflict which will be healed by time" (one day Amedeo or Aimone would be the chef anyway) became a real conflict since the communiqué that the two girls should be successors. Doing this without a general agreement with all dynasts is always a recipe for conflicts.

[Marengo]

That was a gracious and dignified note of the Prince of Napels. And he found a way to refer to their disagreements in an elegant and respectful manner.

More and more non-reigning houses will probably follow the example of the Savoie main branch, the Anhalts, Saxons, Russia (?), Romania and the Castro-branch of the Two Sicilies in future scenarios when the direct heirs are all female. It would be in line with what happened in the reigning European monarchies too. Quarrels about the head-ship of the family seem to be the norm with many of the non-reigning families -with or without female succession changes- as the ways to settle such disputes are rather limited.

I am not quite sure if the prince of Venice and the now 6th duke of Aosta are on cordial terms. The prince of Venice has recently spoken about his Aosta cousins in the New York Times and he was not very complementary. He was rather candid about the Aosta's in the recent French documentary about royals in the second world war too.

Will prince Umberto be styled as Duke of Apulia at one point? He was styled prince of Piedmont, a style also used by the Prince of Napels. ALthough they may prefer to stick to the Piedmont title to prolongue the family rift/prove a point, as is the case with the two dukes of Anjou.

[Addapalla]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

the communiqué that the two girls should be successors.

It is without validity, so they can say whatever they wish.

As one can see in the appalling NYT interview of the older daughter Vittoria, she presented herself as a shallow, vain and tactless air-head who lacks refinement if not dignity. Very much like her father and her grandfather, it seems.

[Blog Real]

Old photo of Prince Amedeo.
https://c8.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/...837_e0K8K.jpeg

King Juan Carlos of Spain with Prince Amedeo and Princess Silvia, Duke and Duchess of Aosta, as well as Prince Aimone, Duke of Apulia and his then-fiancée Princess Olga of Greece, 2008.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oUlhpC4tD...-B.-2008-3.jpg

[Marengo]

Originally Posted by Addapalla

It is without validity, so they can say whatever they wish.

As one can see in the appalling NYT interview of the older daughter Vittoria, she presented herself as a shallow, vain and tactless air-head who lacks refinement if not dignity. Very much like her father and her grandfather, it seems.

I don't think dignity or refinement are the necessary requirements for succeeding in a hereditary system. If it were we would have avoided many unfortunate monarchs in the past all over Europe. The duke of Aosta was far from perfect in his own private life too.

[Duc_et_Pair]

The message of the Duke of Savoy, about so many affectionate moments with his cousin, the late Duke of Aosta, seems to hint to happy and conflict free times inside the family.

Picture: King Umberto II, Prince Amedeo (whom passed-away today) and his wife Claude d'Orléans, princesse de France:

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/P2RWY9/6-a...oia-P2RWY9.jpg

Cousins Vittorio Emanuele di Savoia and Amedeo di Savoia-Aosta:

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/P2RWYG/ita...oia-P2RWYG.jpg

Amedeo and Claude d'Orléans:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...laude_1964.jpg

Like his late father, also Aimone, since today the new Duke of Aosta, proudly served in the Navy:

http://www.crocerealedisavoia.org/wp...Aimone0001.jpg

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The late Duke of Aosta considered himself the chef of the former Royal House. [...]

But with the unilateral action by Vittorio Emanuele to put his two granddaughters before Amedeo and Aimone, the "conflict which will be healed by time" (one day Amedeo or Aimone would be the chef anyway) became a real conflict since the communiqué that the two girls should be successors. Doing this without a general agreement with all dynasts is always a recipe for conflicts.

But the late Amedeo also took unilateral action when he declared that he no longer recognized Vittorio Emanuele as the head of their house, and later declared that the dynastic rights of his granddaughters were illegitimate, all without the agreement of Vittorio Emanuele or his descendants. After breaking away, I imagine Amedeo himself would have neither wanted nor expected to be consulted on the decrees of a cousin whose authority he does not recognize as legitimate (and vice versa).

Originally Posted by Marengo

That was a gracious and dignified note of the Prince of Napels. And he found a way to refer to their disagreements in an elegant and respectful manner.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Marengo

More and more non-reigning houses will probably follow the example of the Savoie main branch, the Anhalts, Saxons, Russia (?), Romania and the Castro-branch of the Two Sicilies in future scenarios when the direct heirs are all female. It would be in line with what happened in the reigning European monarchies too. Quarrels about the head-ship of the family seem to be the norm with many of the non-reigning families -with or without female succession changes- as the ways to settle such disputes are rather limited.

Moreover, as this family quarrel was sparked between two male, male-line cousins, female heirs or headship can hardly be faulted.

Originally Posted by Addapalla

It is without validity, so they can say whatever they wish.

It has as much or as little validity as any comparable communiqués issued by his cousin. As Marengo's comment suggested, any authorities who might be in a position to take formal action to settle legitimacy on either "head of the house" are not going to become involved in the foreseeable future.

Originally Posted by Addapalla

As one can see in the appalling NYT interview of the older daughter Vittoria, she presented herself as a shallow, vain and tactless air-head who lacks refinement if not dignity. Very much like her father and her grandfather, it seems.

As the thread for Emanuele Filiberto and family is where the NYT interview was posted and impressions of it shared, my reply is posted there.

[Benjamin]

The Duke of Aosta will be temporarily buried in Tuscany, per prior arrangements that Prince Amedeo put into place. When the now Dowager Duchess passes away, Prince Amedeo and Princess Silvia will both be buried at Superga in Turin.

https://eurohistoryjournal.blogspot....-of-aosta.html

[Duc_et_Pair]

Interesting that in the future the late Duke of Aosta and his wife will be interred in the royal crypt of the Basilica di Superga in Turin. That means the rift between the Savoias and the Savoia-Aostas is not so deep that they exclude each other to be interred in this crypt. Of course the Savoias and the Savoia-Aostas are the very same family.

[Marengo]

I am not quite sure if the main branch has much to say about it. King Umberto and Queen Marie-José are burried in the Abbey of Hautecombe in Switzerland. The remains of Queen Elena and King Vittorio Emanuele III were transferred in 2017 to the Santuario Regina Montis Regalis in Vicoforte, Piedmont.

http://www.unofficialroyalty.com/roy...-burial-sites/

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Marengo

I am not quite sur if the main branch has much to say about it. King Umberto and Queen Marie-Josée are burried in the Abbey of Hautecombe in Switzerland. The remains of Queen Elena and King Vittorio Emanuele III were transferred in 2017 to the Santuario Regina Montis Regalis in Vicoforte, Piedmont.

Italian Royal Burial Sites | Unofficial Royalty

Yes, you are right. Hautecombe was a traditional site for the Savoias (it is in the French part of the Savoy region). That Vittorio Emanuele and Elena were interred in Vicoforte probably is because of the King's stained reputation. Or the Savoias have so many burial sites that there is no specific main royal mausoleum, no idea. I remember the current Duke of Savoy making a somewhat pathetic plea for having his grandfather interred in the Pantheon in Rome.

[LadyFinn]

Nicolae al Romaniei/Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth-Mills at his Facebook
"I learned with special sadness about the passing into eternity of His Royal Highness Prince Amedeo of Savoy, Duke of Aosta.
Son of Duke Aimone of Aosta and Princess Irina of Greece and Denmark, he was the first cousin of my grandfather, King Mihai I. Prince Amedeo was a special man, whom I often visited as a child in Italy.
He was always close to Queen Elena, Queen Anne and Princesses Elena, Irina, Sofia and Maria. He also visited our country several times, the last time being present with his daughter, Princess Mafalda, at the burial ceremony of Queen Mother Elena, in October 2019.
I extend my condolences to the family, along with my good thoughts. Rest in peace!
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...48566806632267

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by LadyFinn

Nicolae al Romaniei/Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth-Mills at his Facebook
"I learned with special sadness about the passing into eternity of His Royal Highness Prince Amedeo of Savoy, Duke of Aosta.
Son of Duke Aimone of Aosta and Princess Irina of Greece and Denmark, he was the first cousin of my grandfather, King Mihai I. Prince Amedeo was a special man, whom I often visited as a child in Italy.
He was always close to Queen Elena, Queen Anne and Princesses Elena, Irina, Sofia and Maria. He also visited our country several times, the last time being present with his daughter, Princess Mafalda, at the burial ceremony of Queen Mother Elena, in October 2019.
I extend my condolences to the family, along with my good thoughts. Rest in peace!
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...48566806632267

That is a nice tribute by Nicholas.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Communiqué from the Royal House of Romania:


THE DUKE OF AOSTA - IN MEMORIAM


It is with unspeakable sadness that Her Majesty The Custodian of the Crown and His Royal Highness Prince Radu learned about the passing into eternity of His Royal Highness Prince Amedeo, the Duke of Aosta.

Amedeo di Savoia-Aosta, 5th Duke of Aosta, was born on the 27th of September 1943 in Florence as the son of Aimone di Savoia-Aosta, 4th Duke of Aosta of and Princess Irina of Greece and Denmark.

As a first cousin to King Michael, the Duke of Aosta was a constant presence in the life of the Romanian royal family. Prince Amedeo was like a brother to Princess Margareta, the Custodian of the Crown, whom he met from the first day of her life and with whom he remained uninterruptedly close.

The Duke and Princess Margareta maintained a deep friendship in childhood, adolescence, adulthood as well in professional life. The Duke of Aosta has also always been with Queen Helena, King Michael, Queen Anne and with the princesses Helena, Irina, Sofia and Maria.

Prince Amedeo visited Romania several times, as a guest of the royal family. His last stay, in Bucharest and at Curtea de Argeș, with his daughter Princess Mafalda, was in October 2019, at the burial ceremony of Queen Helena.

The Custodian of the Crown and Their Royal Highnesses all conveyed their heartfelt condoleances and full symapthy to the grieving family.

https://www.romaniaregala.ro/jurnal/...a-in-memoriam/

[Addapalla]

Originally Posted by Marengo

I don't think dignity or refinement are the necessary requirements for succeeding in a hereditary system.

To be clear, I didn't mention dignity and refinement as succession qualifications, though I believe no such family as the Savoy senior branch, as they are today, would ever be tolerated in an existing 21st century European constitutional monarchy. (Note what had to be done recently in Spain re: corrupt Cristina/Iñaki and JC, in UK with seedy Andrew, and more quietly with “office bully” MT in Luxembourg in the name of modern monarchy's commitment to dignity and integrity.)

The block to Vittoria's succession is that there is no Savoy monarchy under which the rules of the monarchy can be changed for her to become Head of House. Few of the remaining Italian monarchists support the senior branch since the revelations of 2006, so even among Italy's committed “pretend-monarchy” crowd they have been virtually abandoned in favor of the generally better-behaved Aosta branch.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

t. Of course the Savoias and the Savoia-Aostas are the very same family.

They are very distant branches of the family though. Aren't Aimone and Emanuele Filiberto fourth cousins ?


Still, you are correct in the sense that, using the patrilineal naming convention, they are members of the same family. The tricky issue is that, using the same convention, Vittoria di Savoia's children will belong to a different family.


If Aimone and Vittoria were both claiming the (defunct) throne of Italy , I guess that would not be a major issue. Indeed, in countries that have had cognatic sucession for centuries, including England and later the UK, the Crown passed from one family to another multiple times and it is reasonable that Emanuele Filiberto would rather have his daughter succeed him than his fourth cousin.


The problem is, however, that the question here is not succession to the throne of Italy, which unfortunately was irrevocably abolished by the republlican constitution of 1947. Instead, the dispute between the two branches is about the succession to the position of head of the family and grand master of the Savoy orders and, in this case, it is somewhat odd that Vittoria di Savoia's descendants should become heads of a family to which they do not belong.


As pointed out by other posters, merit of course is not a prerequisite for hereditary succession, which is inherently non-meritocratic. But, if merit is to be discussed, especially if we were discussing who would be best fit to be King of Italy (something that is now constitutionally impossible under the Republic), I am afraid that neither branch scores high marks.


Marengo mentioned Emanuele Filiberto's claims in the French TV documentary Royals at War that his grandfather was somehow forced to cooperate with Mussolini, or else he would have been deposed and replaced with the Aostas, who were "notorious fascists". That is not a new claim and is part of the revisionist narrative that the main branch of the House of Savoy has been trying to push for quite some time. Unfortunately, that is not true, or, to give the Savoys the benefit of the doubt, at least it is not entirely true. In other forums, I mentioned multiple occasions when Vittorio Emanuele III could have removed Mussolini and would have been backed by the Italian establishment and the military, but chose not to do it.

Of course, Vittoria di Savoia, a 17-year-old teenager raised in France, is not guilty of the sins of her ancestors and it is not fair that she should be punished for that or, indeed, for the questionable personal life of other more recent members of her family.

[An Ard Ri]

Wonderful to see that the duke will be buried at basilica of Superga which served as a burial site for the House of Savoy and many of his ancestors.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Addapalla

The block to Vittoria's succession is that there is no Savoy monarchy under which the rules of the monarchy can be changed for her to become Head of House.

Likewise, there is no Savoy monarchy under which the rules of the monarchy can stipulate that Amedeo, Aimone and Umberto should succeed as Head of House. Mbruno explained in the thread on succession and restoration that the senior Savoy line recognizes the reality that there is currently no monarchy, and they are claimants only to the headship of the house, not headship of the nonexistent monarchy. (I asked in that thread whether the same is true for the Savoy-Aostas.)

[Addapalla]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

They are very distant branches of the family though. Aren't Aimone and Emanuele Filiberto fourth cousins ?

Genealogically, over the last 70 years or so Europe's Gotha families have generally become more “concentrated,” but the Habsburgs, Liechtensteins, Bourbons, Wittelsbachs, Hohenzollerns and others still have separate flourishing fully-dynastic lines where family members are less closely related than 4th cousin.

[maria-olivia]

The Aoste were alowed to return in Italy and the savoie were banned !