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  #81  
Old 05-13-2017, 09:07 PM
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I'm sorry this is off topic but I've always wondered where the title of Infanta/Infante came from and why it's specific to Spain. It seems that it's approximately the same rank as Prince or Princess, or even higher in some cases, given how closely related an Infante or Infanta needs to be to the Spanish monarch. Any insight would be appreciated.
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  #82  
Old 05-14-2017, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I'm sorry this is off topic but I've always wondered where the title of Infanta/Infante came from and why it's specific to Spain. It seems that it's approximately the same rank as Prince or Princess, or even higher in some cases, given how closely related an Infante or Infanta needs to be to the Spanish monarch. Any insight would be appreciated.
The title traditionally was used by Iberian kingdoms, which includes Portugal.

It literally translates to child. The title was used to refer to the children, but in the past also spouses and male line grandchildren of the king.

France was the same. Sons and daughters of the king were fils and filles de France. It was also used to refer to the children of the dauphin. It literally translates to children.

It's the equivelant of prince or princess. It just references the relation to the monarch.
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  #83  
Old 05-14-2017, 01:30 PM
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Here is a little more on the history and use of the title with the passing of ,Infanta Alicia she was the last Spanish Infanta by marriage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infante
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  #84  
Old 05-14-2017, 03:32 PM
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Anne d' Orleans , widow of Don Carlos was never Infanta and I suppose will never have official Funerals.
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  #85  
Old 05-14-2017, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by carlota View Post
oh my... cristina in attendance to the funeral - and this picture says it all. look at the faces of felipe and letizia, and how elena and cristina watch them from the side of their eyes... you could cut the air with a knife.
I thought the same. I can almost feel the tension myself. I'm quite surprised that Cristina attended though, I didn't expect her to be there since she didn't attend the Easter service and seems to have understandably become more private since the NOOS case.

It was nice to see lots of Infanta Alicia's family at the funeral. May she rest in peace.
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  #86  
Old 05-14-2017, 04:37 PM
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A funeral, even an official one, is a bit different then official Easter services. Alicia was family, an aunt to Cristina as much as her siblings. I'd be more surprised if she hadn't attended.
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  #87  
Old 05-14-2017, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I'm sorry this is off topic but I've always wondered where the title of Infanta/Infante came from and why it's specific to Spain. It seems that it's approximately the same rank as Prince or Princess, or even higher in some cases, given how closely related an Infante or Infanta needs to be to the Spanish monarch. Any insight would be appreciated.
The children of Iberian kings have been designated as Infanta/Infante from the turn of the second millennium, well in advance of the courtesy title of Prince/ss being given to the children of other monarchs in western Europe. However, I do not know why the other monarchies did not emulate Spain eventually.


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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Here is a little more on the history and use of the title with the passing of ,Infanta Alicia she was the last Spanish Infanta by marriage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infante

Quote:
In addition, some distant relatives of Spanish sovereigns, usually children of infantes by grace, were accorded the "honours and treatment" of infante or infanta, but were not granted the title itself,[1][2] Included in this category were the children [...] of Infante Fernando de Bavaria y Borbón's marriage with Infanta Maria Teresa of Spain [...]
The children of Infanta María Teresa de Borbón (who was sister to King Alfonso XIII) and her husband Infante Fernando de Baviera were accorded the title of Infante by Royal Decree.

Infantes de España
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  #88  
Old 05-14-2017, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The decree of 1987 may not have been retroactive, but it affected existing situations inasmuch as it stripped particular individuals (e.g. Gonzalo de Borbón y Dampierre) of the Spanish form of address of Alteza Real (article 3, 3c).

However, I think Infanta Alicia's title was a title of courtesy. Her marriage transpired when Spain was a republic in which noble titles were disallowed, and I have been unable to locate any decree legalizing the title.
Alicia was an Infanta by marriage and thats the tittle that was given by the royal house more tan duchess of Calabria. Her official title in Spain was Infanta of Spain. Her courtesy titles were the italian ones. In the decree specifies that; those members of the family of His Majesty The King, Juan Carlos I of Bourbon, who CURRENTLY have been recognised the use of a peerage pertaining to the Royal Family and to the form of address of Your Royal Highness may CONSERVE THEM FOR LIFE, but neither their spouses nor their children shall be so entitled.

At the time off the decree she had recognised the title of Infanta and the Style of Royal Highness by Alfonso XIII, so she had the permission of the King JC to conserve It for life.

It doenst matter that the title was recognised by a King in exile, for the Royal House the tittles were as valid as if were given from a reining one. The sisters and descendats of Juan Carlos were given the title of Infante/a in exile, as Alicia. Juan Carlos legalized the title in this decree. The decree was made for legalized the titles of his family members given by his father and grandfather during the exile.

So she remains been an Infanta ad personam. She also had the official title of Princess of Borbón given by Alfonso XIII to her father and all his descendats in the 1920's.

Gonzalo de Borbón was never a Royal Highness in Spain, his brother was granted this Style and the dukedom of Cádiz by Francisco Franco. When Gonzalo and Alfonso were born their grandfather never gave them any title apart from "Grandes de España". The title that is given to the sons of an Infante.
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  #89  
Old 05-14-2017, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by baena View Post
At the time off the decree she had recognised the title of Infanta and the Style of Royal Highness by Alfonso XIII, so she had the permission of the King JC to conserve It for life.

It doenst matter that the title was recognised by a King in exile, for the Royal House the tittles were as valid as if were given from a reining one. The sisters and descendats of Juan Carlos were given the title of Infante/a in exile, as Alicia. Juan Carlos legalized the title in this decree. The decree was made for legalized the titles of his family members given by his father and grandfather during the exile.

So she remains been an Infanta ad personam.
Thank you very much for explaining the decree and the legalization of the Infanta's title.

Quote:
She also had the official title of Princess of Borbón given by Alfonso XIII to her father and all his descendats in the 1920's.
Was the official title of Prince Elias hereditary? The royal decree is here:
http://boe.es/datos/pdfs/BOE//1920/234/A00704-00704.pdf
Vengo en reconocer la nacionalidad española a D. Elías Roberto Carlos de Borbón de Parma, con la facultad de user en estos Reinos el título de Príncipe de Borbón, con el tratamiento de Alteza Real.

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When Gonzalo and Alfonso were born their grandfather never gave them any title apart from "Grandes de España". The title that is given to the sons of an Infante.
You are correct, and my post was poorly worded, as the royal family never recognized Gonzalo as a Royal Highness and Franco indeed never created him a Royal Highness in a decree. However, I have read that he was accorded the style of Royal Highness in his Spanish passport until 1987.
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  #90  
Old 05-14-2017, 10:36 PM
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Thank you, all, for the interesting information.
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  #91  
Old 05-15-2017, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Thank you very much for explaining the decree and the legalization of the Infanta's title.

Was the official title of Prince Elias hereditary? The royal decree is here:
http://boe.es/datos/pdfs/BOE//1920/234/A00704-00704.pdf
Vengo en reconocer la nacionalidad española a D. Elías Roberto Carlos de Borbón de Parma, con la facultad de user en estos Reinos el título de Príncipe de Borbón, con el tratamiento de Alteza Real.

You are correct, and my post was poorly worded, as the royal family never recognized Gonzalo as a Royal Highness and Franco indeed never created him a Royal Highness in a decree. However, I have read that he was accorded the style of Royal Highness in his Spanish passport until 1987.
Alfonso XIII recognized the nationality to Elías and gave him the permission to use the title and the Style. As the title was not given to him ad personam and the decree did not said that neither their spouses nor their children shall be so entitled, it was able to be used by his family members and also recognized the nationality to them.

I never read about the Style given to Gonzalo in his spanish pasaport, but its weird because hi was never considered part of the Royal family or part of the kings family (familia del rey). And he was never considered RoyaI highness in Spain. I had read that Alfonso, Gonzalo and Luis Alfonso had that Style in their french passports, not in spanish ones. Only Alfonso was Royal Highness in Spain.

The decree was made to recognized the titles and to stop some titles and Styles used from some family members of the King, that were not recognized by Don Juan or Alfonso XIII. For example:

1-the use of the title of infanta and RH style from Emmanuella de Dampierre, she was never recognized an infanta and RH, she only had the permission of Alfonso XIII to use the title of duchess of Segovia.

2-The titles and styles that Alfonso and Gonzalo used of Princes of Borbón and RH, they never had recognized any title from Alfonso XIII and Don Juan and for the SRF that titles were fantasy titles. Only when Francisco Franco recognized Alfonso duke of Cádiz and RH the SRF recognized him as a Royal.

3-The titles and styles used by Carlos Hugo de Borbón-Parma and his family in their pretense to the spanish crown of the Carlist branch. Carlos Hugo Style his self as Prince of Asturias during the Francos régime, and for the SRF the only Prince of Asturias is the heir to the trone and that time was JC as his father Don Juan was the Chief of the SRH and "King un exile".
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  #92  
Old 05-15-2017, 09:30 PM
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That makes perfect sense.

Was there any reason why King Juan Carlos did not issue the decree until 1987?
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  #93  
Old 05-16-2017, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post

That makes perfect sense.

Was there any reason why King Juan Carlos did not issue the decree until 1987?

When JC became King in 1975, the polítical situation in Spain was very difficult. It was the end of the dictatorship for 40 years, the population wanted a democracy and a pacefull change to the new democracy. JC had to establish de monarchy again, in a country that there was not a monarchy since 1931, in 1978 a new constituon was made and vote, until 1977 the Chief of the Royal House was don Juan, there was a attempted coup in 1981... the democracy started in a very difficult situation, and when JC became King for the RH the official titles were the ones that Don Juan and Alfonso XIII agreed.

During that difficult start of the reign I think that JC had much bigger issues that the titles of his family, when he became King all the titles of his family members became officials. In that difficult years some of his family members still usted titles that never were recognized by Alfonso XIII and Don Juan.

In 1987 the monarchy was established, the democracy as well, the country overcome the transition in a pacefull way... The hard times passed and maybe JC thought that was time to end with the titles that some family members used and were not officials. Alfonso entlited his sons as Princes of Borbón and RH, Gonzalo as well, the Borbón-Parma Carlist branch Style their self as infantes of Spain, Emmanuella...
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  #94  
Old 06-02-2017, 04:50 PM
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HRH Princess Cristina de Borbón-Dos Sicilias accompanied her mother HRH the Dowager Duchess of Calabria to a Memorial Mass for the late Infanta Alicia which was celebrated in the church of St. Augustine in Madrid.

http://www.hola.com/imagenes/realeza...orleans1-t.jpg

HRH Princess Beatriz of Orleans

http://www.hola.com/imagenes/realeza...orleans1-a.jpg
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