Who is the Head of the Imperial Family?

[lucien]

Yeah I also think that Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna is viewed as the pretender and quite popular . . .

But all 4 of your ideas have merit to them . . .

A pretender she is allright.....

She's not halve as popular,within a large part of the Russian Orthodox Church,maybe,but in general?
People hardly know she's there at all,nor care quite frankly.

 

[COUNTESS]

A constitutional monarch does not have to be bright, as he has elected officials who know how to run things, such as George V, who was the sole monarch to survive WWI. Autocrats best be smart and competent, because they are running the show. Nicky was neither smart nor competent. Neither was Wilhem II, which is why at the end of WWI, they were gone.

 

[lexi4]

A constitutional monarch does not have to be bright, as he has elected officials who know how to run things, such as George V, who was the sole monarch to survive WWI. Autocrats best be smart and competent, because they are running the show. Nicky was neither smart nor competent. Neither was Wilhem II, which is why at the end of WWI, they were gone.

You bring up a very good point my pointing out the distinction between a monarch and an autocrat. For most of his reign, I would consider Nicholas an autocrat. And his lack of judgment and intelligence (among many other things) led to his fall. Nicholas didn't listen to his counselors.

 

[lexi4]

You're speaking about Vladimir's father, Cyril, and the fact his mother, Marie Pavlovna was not born Orthodox. In 1908, she did convert to Orthodoxy and this was confirmed by the Tsar. Given that point, there was nothing under the Pauline Law barring Cyril from the throne.

The ridiculous notion of Cyril betraying the Empress and imperial children was debunked many times.

Could you please give your source for the conversion of Marie Pavlovna? I've been trying to locate that information.
Thank you,
Lexi

 

[Russophile]

Could you please give your source for the conversion of Marie Pavlovna? I've been trying to locate that information.
Thank you,
Lexi

Ditto. Lex and I have been looking for that for a while now. . .
I'd rather have an intelligent ruler than one that was just competent, but that's just me. .

 

[lexi4]

Ditto. Lex and I have been looking for that for a while now. . .
I'd rather have an intelligent ruler than one that was just competent, but that's just me. .

I have asked for this source from other posters, but no luck. Hopefully we will get a source this time.
Lexi

 

[Marengo]

Now that other poster would be me... I will try to have a look threw my books this weekend!

 

[branchg]

Could you please give your source for the conversion of Marie Pavlovna? I've been trying to locate that information.
Thank you,
Lexi

From "The Romanovs: The Final Chapter", Robert Massie, p.265,

"Cyril's mother, Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna, a German princess from Mecklenburg-Schwerin, had insisted on remaining Lutheran when she married Cyril's father, Grand Duke Vladimir. She remained Lutheran for thirty-four years after her marriage. In 1908, she realized that, because of the illness of the little Tsarevitch Alexis, her husband and her son Cyril were close in line of succession to the throne. In order to promote their chances, Marie Pavlovna belatedly converted to Orthodoxy."

 

[lexi4]

From "The Romanovs: The Final Chapter", Robert Massie, p.265,

"Cyril's mother, Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna, a German princess from Mecklenburg-Schwerin, had insisted on remaining Lutheran when she married Cyril's father, Grand Duke Vladimir. She remained Lutheran for thirty-four years after her marriage. In 1908, she realized that, because of the illness of the little Tsarevitch Alexis, her husband and her son Cyril were close in line of succession to the throne. In order to promote their chances, Marie Pavlovna belatedly converted to Orthodoxy."

Thank you. I have that book. Hopefully Massie sourced that information. Thank you again.

 

[Tsarina Anastasia]

First of all, most of the heirs either abdicated or signed over their rights for themselves and/or their heirs. GD Cyril was actually next in line after Alexei and Michael Alexandrovitch were executed. Other claimants were Dmitri Pavlovich and GD Nicholas Nicholaevitch, but their support was limited and the supporters gradually shifted to Cyril. Cyril's son, Vladimir, married a divorcee which is what has made Maria's claim disputed. Another pretender, Nicholas Romanov, was president of the Romanov Family Association and has proclaimed himself the head of the House of Romanov.
Ultimately, there is no longer a throne and even if a monarchy was restored, it would not be any of these claimants. It would be more like an experienced leader elected to the title.

 

[branchg]

First of all, most of the heirs either abdicated or signed over their rights for themselves and/or their heirs. GD Cyril was actually next in line after Alexei and Michael Alexandrovitch were executed. Other claimants were Dmitri Pavlovich and GD Nicholas Nicholaevitch, but their support was limited and the supporters gradually shifted to Cyril. Cyril's son, Vladimir, married a divorcee which is what has made Maria's claim disputed. Another pretender, Nicholas Romanov, was president of the Romanov Family Association and has proclaimed himself the head of the House of Romanov.
Ultimately, there is no longer a throne and even if a monarchy was restored, it would not be any of these claimants. It would be more like an experienced leader elected to the title.

Grand Duke Dimitri and Grand Duke Nicholas never put forth a claim to the throne in exile. They were not next in-line after the deaths you mention.

Regarding Leonida's divorce from Summer Kirby, this is not an objection to marriage under the Pauline Law or the Russian Orthodox Church. Vladimir's position was recognized by most of the surviving dynasts, however, when he declared Maria would inherit his position as Head of House that became a problem with the other branches.

I agree there is almost zero likelihood of the throne being restored in Russia.

 

[chancellor]

HIH Grand Duchess Maria of Russia

latest full report on Tour of Australia, please note her titles on all documents and memorial stones

http://russianwelfare.org.au/pdf/imperial.pdf

http://www.riuo.org/SUCCESSION_ENGLISH.pdf


Linked Media

 

[SIDOROFF]

The Emperor of Russia is His Imperial Majesty Emperor Lev Lvovitch.

 

[chancellor]

interesting comment

Your are obviously not Orthodox, your comment is against the Patriachs of all Russia view, can you back this up, just by putting a comment like that is nothing at all, what does this person do are there any noble proofs ?

is this person active in Russia, let me know

Stepan Maximovich

 

[chancellor]

Sideroff

The Emperor of Russia is His Imperial Majesty Emperor Leo Lvovitch.

Sideroff, seeing that your Russian like me tell me in detail what this article is about from Metro Kirill ?

rembering he is the overseas relations representive, what are his exact words on this subject ?

http://www.monarhist.ru/news2007/news_04_12.htm

Stepan

 

[SIDOROFF]

I am Orthodox, but it is not the prerogative of the Patriarch of All the Russias to decide who is the Emperor of Russia.

His Imperial Majesty Emperor Lev Lvovitch Kishkin resides in Kovrov, Russia. When the rightful Emperor of Russia Ivan VI was massacred on the orders of Catherine II, his rights passed successively to his brother Peter, and then to his nephew Ilya Ivanovitch Kishkin, who was the son of his sister Elizaveta and her husband, lieutenant Ivan Dmitrievitch Kishkin. Ilya Ivanovitch Kishkin had no issue and willed all his rights to his paternal brother Nicholai Ivanovitch Kishkin. Lev Lvovitch Kishkin is the senior direct descendant through the male line of Nicholai Ivanovitch Kishkin. The Kishkins were a noble family of ancient Polish linage in Shuya, Russia. Their ancestor Asenbech Kishka moved from Poland to Russia in the 14th century. This statement is proved by the documents in the Kovrov City Archive.

His Imperial Majesty Lev Lvovitch is the rightful Emperor of Russia, as he inherited his rights from the Emperor Ivan VI, who ruled before all the coups took place.

 

[chancellor]

sideroff

l dont think any one would run with you on that, its hard enough with all the knockers on better claims, what does this person do today for the disadvanted, for the hungry etc, show me their social profile, news paper articles, Church interaction, l want to see more concrete proof

Stepan

 

[chancellor]

sideroff

Èíòåðíåò ïîðòàë "Ìîíàðõèñò.ÐÓ"

here is a whole lot of news

 

[SIDOROFF]

Whether someone is the Emperor of Russia is not decided by what he "does today for the disadvanted, for the hungry etc." It is a modern fashion invented in the West, His Imperial Majesty Emperor Lev Lvovitch does not have to follow it. There are some articles on him in the Kovrov newspaper "Kovrovskie Vesti" ("Ковровские вести"). Only the heir of the rightful Emperor Ivan VI can be the real Emperor of Russia.

 

[Warren]

When the rightful Emperor of Russia Ivan VI was massacred on the orders of Catherine II, his rights passed successively to his brother Peter, and then to his nephew Ilya Ivanovitch Kishkin, who was the son of his sister Elizabeth and her husband, lieutenant Ivan Dmitrievitch Kishkin.

So you're saying that every Emperor and reigning Empress after Ivan VI were illegitimate usurpers? You may as well argue that the Duke of Bavaria is the rightful King of England.

 

[SIDOROFF]

Yes. I would say that the Duke of Brunswick is the rightful King of the United Kingdom.

 

[Warren]

There is no 'Grand Duke of Brunswick'. Brunswick was a Duchy and in any case the Prince of Hanover's claim to the British throne can only be sustained by application of the Salic Law, which never applied in Britain.

 

[SIDOROFF]

The Salic Law most closely corresponds to the laws of nature and common sense.

 

[Warren]

I have no wish to enter into a ridiculous argument, but I will re-state the fact that Brunswick was a Duchy, ruled by a Duke.
ETA.. I see that you have changed your original and follow-up posts to remove your insistence that Brunswick was a Grand Duchy.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

The Salic Law most closely corresponds to the laws of nature and common sense.

Come on, try to arrive in the 21.st century where men and women have equal rights.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I

His Imperial Majesty Emperor Leo Lvovitch Kishkin resides in Kovrov, Russia. When the rightful Emperor of Russia Ivan VI was massacred on the orders of Catherine II, his rights passed successively to his brother Peter, and then to his nephew Ilya Ivanovitch Kishkin, who was the son of his sister Elizabeth and her husband, lieutenant Ivan Dmitrievitch Kishkin. Ilya Ivanovitch Kishkin had no issue and willed all his rights to his paternal brother Nicholas Ivanovitch Kishkin. .

Do I understand it right that this "paternal brother" was no blood relative of Ivan VI.? Why should he then have a better claim than the Romanows?

 

[Jo of Palatine]

There is no 'Grand Duke of Brunswick'. Brunswick was a Duchy and in any case the Prince of Hanover's claim to the British throne can only be sustained by application of the Salic Law, which never applied in Britain.

The line of the Dukes of Braunschweig died out in 1884, the lands were inherited by their cousins of Hannover of which Ernst August is the current Head of the family. Ernst August accepts queen Elizabeth II. as the souverain of the UK.

 

[SIDOROFF]

Do I understand it right that this "paternal brother" was no blood relative of Ivan VI.? Why should he then have a better claim than the Romanows?

Yes, you understand it right. But he was a blood relative of his paternal brother Ilya, who was the rightful Emperor. People you call "Romanows" are also not such, but Holstein-Gottorps.

 

[SIDOROFF]

The line of the Dukes of Braunschweig died out in 1884, the lands were inherited by their cousins of Hannover of which Ernst August is the current Head of the family. Ernst August accepts queen Elizabeth II. as the souverain of the UK.

I do not insist he is waging a war against her. I just say he could have a rightful claim.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Yes, you understand it right. But he was a blood relative of his paternal brother Ilya I, who was the rightful Emperor. People you call "Romanows" are also not such, but Holstein-Hottorps.

On the one hand you accept that there was inheritance through the female line to this Ilya, on the other hand you make fun of the same case of inheritance through the wife of a duke of Holstein-Gottorp. Sounds strange to me.