Tsar Nicholas II (1868-1918) and Empress Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix) (1872-1918)

[victor1319]

History is an ever evolving discussion. And there is a new book coming out, claiming to rule over all the others...

"Unknown and unrevealed facts, which evince that many truths in regard to the life and death of the Romanovs remain silenced or distorted to this day. Nicholas II was surrounded by the forceful presence of his mother, the Dowager Empress, and his uncles. This generation of Romanovs could have, under normal circumstances, expected another two decades of service to and influence over their nation, and it was with both regret and misgivings that they kissed the hands of their new young sovereign and his Hessian bride. This video is produced as part of the project for the book "The Romanov Royal Martyrs”, which is an impressive 512-page book, featuring nearly 200 black & white photographs, and a 56-page photo insert of more than 80 high-quality images, colorized by the acclaimed Russian artist Olga Shirnina (Klimbim) and appearing here in print for the first time."

https://youtu.be/X2EG9XjUt8E

Basically, the story of this book is in short: It is sponsored by by the Church, co-written for example be renowned historians like Helen Rappaport and based on formerly unknown sources from the newly opened archives of Russia.

https://www.amazon.de/Romanov-Royal-.../dp/9963951775

Is it good? I don't know... I did not read it. I'll wait for a German translation.

[Furienna]

Originally Posted by victor1319

History is an ever evolving discussion. And there is a new book coming out, claiming to rule over all the others...

"Unknown and unrevealed facts, which evince that many truths in regard to the life and death of the Romanovs remain silenced or distorted to this day. Nicholas II was surrounded by the forceful presence of his mother, the Dowager Empress, and his uncles. This generation of Romanovs could have, under normal circumstances, expected another two decades of service to and influence over their nation, and it was with both regret and misgivings that they kissed the hands of their new young sovereign and his Hessian bride. This video is produced as part of the project for the book "The Romanov Royal Martyrs”, which is an impressive 512-page book, featuring nearly 200 black & white photographs, and a 56-page photo insert of more than 80 high-quality images, colorized by the acclaimed Russian artist Olga Shirnina (Klimbim) and appearing here in print for the first time."

https://youtu.be/X2EG9XjUt8E

Basically, the story of this book is in short: It is sponsored by by the Church, co-written for example be renowned historians like Helen Rappaport and based on formerly unknown sources from the newly opened archives of Russia.

https://www.amazon.de/Romanov-Royal-.../dp/9963951775

Is it good? I don't know... I did not read it. I'll wait for a German translation.

That was an interesting point about Nicholas's mother and uncles.
But yeah, it is not the first time that I heard that Nicholas probably had to become a far too soon.

[REAL COUNTESS]

I just watched the Video about the Romanov Imperial Family. I need to get the book. What was done to them was a Crime against HUMANITY.

[victor1319]

Originally Posted by REAL COUNTESS

I just watched the Video about the Romanov Imperial Family. I need to get the book. What was done to them was a Crime against HUMANITY.

Their death has been like a breaking seawall and gave free way to the Red Terror with it's innumerous victims.

They were the first, which were murdered, but what followed, was a now half forgotten sinister tragedy.

I am always wondering, whether the sainthood as martyrs of the orthodox church was mainly given to them, to exemplify the horrors of the revolution.

[duchessrachel]

Does anyone know if the Russian Orthodox church has allowed the remains of the Tsarevich Alexii and his sister (Anastasia or Marie) to be buried? What is the church's disagreement with the DNA results?

[Curryong]

The last news on the subject I've been able to trace has been this article from July 2018. I know that the Church was reluctant to bury the remains because they felt that earlier DNA tests on them weren't 100% accurate. Later tests were conducted and the results were examined 'with great interest' by Church authorities. But as of two years ago Alexei and his sister were still unburied.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ovs-180969674/

[duchessrachel]

Originally Posted by Curryong

The last news on the subject I've been able to trace has been this article from July 2018. I know that the Church was reluctant to bury the remains because they felt that earlier DNA tests on them weren't 100% accurate. Later tests were conducted and the results were examined 'with great interest' by Church authorities. But as of two years ago Alexei and his sister were still unburied.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ovs-180969674/

Thank you.

[CyrilVladisla]

Tsarina Alexandra's social projects included establishing workhouses for the poor, creches for working mothers, and a school for training nurses cat Tsarkoe Selo and another for housemaids.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by duchessrachel

Does anyone know if the Russian Orthodox church has allowed the remains of the Tsarevich Alexii and his sister (Anastasia or Marie) to be buried? What is the church's disagreement with the DNA results?

The churches disagreement is that no one in his or hers right mind will ever be as backward as the ROC and the woman in Madrid.

No,the children s remains are not yet buried.The DNA tests are not reckognised by that church.Anything modern is seen as a danger to them,a danger that their faul play can be discovered.What ´s more,the remains of Nicolas II,Tsarina Alexandra and Olga Tatiana and Anastasia were removed from their tomb at the St.Peter & Paul in StP just about 2 years ago and are now somewhere undisclosed but ....safe...according to the ROC....Not much is known on that,just that they are no longer in the Cathedral anymore.

Some have a double agenda

[duchessrachel]

Originally Posted by lucien

The churches disagreement is that no one in his or hers right mind will ever be as backward as the ROC and the woman in Madrid.

No,the children s remains are not yet buried.The DNA tests are not reckognised by that church.Anything modern is seen as a danger to them,a danger that their faul play can be discovered.What ´s more,the remains of Nicolas II,Tsarina Alexandra and Olga Tatiana and Anastasia were removed from their tomb at the St.Peter & Paul in StP just about 2 years ago and are now somewhere undisclosed but ....safe...according to the ROC....Not much is known on that,just that they are no longer in the Cathedral anymore.

Some have a double agenda

Thank you. I did not realize that their remains had been removed.

[victor1319]

Hi,

I did find an interesting flick about the abdication of the last Tsar. It is within a video from the Romanov Royal Martyrs channel at Youtube.

"One of the main features of this video is the film with V. Shulgin, one of the two Duma members who met Tsar Nicholas II and received from him his abdication statement. Shulgin related the story in 1957, after Stalin’s death, in a film that was shot in the very same train compartment where they met Nicholas II and received his abdication."

The whole part about the abdication is from minutes 10 to 20. Shulgin appears from the minutes 10 to 15.

https://youtu.be/5XKrtZQf8uc

I leave this here in the thread, since the whole vid is about the end of the Romanov rule and the Empress is mentioned quite often.

[duchessrachel]

I have recently read 5 books on Tsar Nicholas II and Alexandra (and family) and I have to stop because it just gets more depressing. Did anyone ever really try to rescue them? Also, I have read conflicting accounts about their desire to be rescued. The book by Edvard Radzinksy speaks of letters that passed between them and some supposed rescuers and their hopes that it would pan out. However, it turned out to be a fake. Then, in "The Romanov Sisters", the author says that Nicholas and Alexandra refused to leave Russia. What is the truth or does anyone really know?

[Alison H]

There are all sorts of weird and wonderful rumours about plots to rescue them from Ekaterinburg, but I don't think any of them are true. I did once read a very weird book which claimed that Tatiana was actually rescued! There were certainly ideas about them going to Britain, Germany or Denmark: I think Kerensky would have agreed to that, if there'd been a firm offer, but, once the Bolsheviks were in power, I doubt it would have happened.


I think Nicholas and Alix did have this idea of being the Father and Mother of the nation, but I think they realised that the game was up, and that they'd have gone if given the chance. I'm not aware that they refused to leave. I'd think they assumed their cousins would come to their rescue ... I understand why they didn't, but I don't suppose they did :-( .

[An Ard Ri]

Here's an article on the Murders at Ekaterinburg in July 1918

https://www.historytoday.com/archive...s-ekaterinburg

[Denville]

There were other royals who were rescued, but Nich and Alexandra and the girls were sent to Siberia, a place where its pretty difficult to reach. They were guarded all the time. Rescue would have been very difficult and since they were the rulers, the Bolsheviks had no intention of turning a blind eye and let them go. And the trouble was also where they were to go once they were rescued. I don't think any European country wanted them as they were symbols of reaction... George V did consider a rescue plan at an early stage but the girls were ill, with measles and couldn't go, and then George took advice from his ministers who knew that the British public would not want them on Brit soil and he agreed. I htink the Kaiser did offer asylum but Aliexandra did not want them to go to Germany...

[Curryong]

'We do not want to and cannot ESCAPE' Reply (in French) from the Imperial Family on June 11th 1918 to a note smuggled into the house at Ekaterinberg, from a White Russian officer in the town, who twice communicated with the family in that way.

I really recommend Helen Rappaport's book 'The Race to Save the Romanovs' in which she goes thoroughly into the various plans and schemes to rescue the family especially earlier on. She states, what I too believe, that any rescue of the family from Siberia would have been far too difficult.

In her opinion there was only one slim opportunity to save herself and the girls, if the Tsarina had taken it, and that was during the early part of the revolt in St Petersburg when she and her daughters were in the Alexander Palace. Of course the Tsar and Tsaravitch were away at that time.

Rappaport's conclusion in the book emphasises the closeness of the family and their deep religious and patriotic feelings. They were in her opinion fatalistic about their probable fate once they reached Siberia. They often expressed to each other that leaving Russia, and perhaps each other, would be worse than death. This was stated by the girls to their parents too, many times.

[duchessrachel]

Originally Posted by Curryong

'We do not want to and cannot ESCAPE' Reply (in French) from the Imperial Family on June 11th 1918 to a note smuggled into the house at Ekaterinberg, from a White Russian officer in the town, who twice communicated with the family in that way.

I really recommend Helen Rappaport's book 'The Race to Save the Romanovs' in which she goes thoroughly into the various plans and schemes to rescue the family especially earlier on. She states, what I too believe, that any rescue of the family from Siberia would have been far too difficult.

In her opinion there was only one slim opportunity to save herself and the girls, if the Tsarina had taken it, and that was during the early part of the revolt in St Petersburg when she and her daughters were in the Alexander Palace. Of course the Tsar and Tsarovitch were away at that time.

Rappaport's conclusion in the book emphasises the closeness of the family and their deep religious and patriotic feelings. They were in her opinion fatalistic about their probable fate once they reached Siberia. They often expressed to each other that leaving Russia would be worse than death. This was stated by the girls to their parents too, many times.

Thank you. I will definitely read that book. I am going to read something a little lighter before I do. Their story is just so tragic

[Denville]

Its very sad but the stupid behaviour of Alex and Nicholas was what led to the Revolution... I thtink its a pity that Alex didn't escape with the girls.. She might have been able to negotiate to get Nicholas or at least Alexie out - but the question was what to do with them when they got out... Noone wanted them...

[Curryong]

Yes duchess, try something fluffy and faintly humorous about Hollywood or something for a while. Reading about the IF's fate (or viewing documentaries) now has the same effect on me as my taking in lots of books about the Holocaust, and Anne Frank in particular, did years ago. You come to a stage where enough is enough. I rarely read about the IF's last months of life nowadays but Rappaport's book was too good to pass up, as I very much admire her as an author.

[duchessrachel]

Originally Posted by Denville

Its very sad but the stupid behaviour of Alex and Nicholas was what led to the Revolution... I thtink its a pity that Alex didn't escape with the girls.. She might have been able to negotiate to get Nicholas or at least Alexie out - but the question was what to do with them when they got out... Noone wanted them...

Yes, it was stupid behavior. I could never understand why Alix did not encourage Nicholas toward a constitutional monarchy. He certainly listened to her. She was Queen Victoria's favorite grandchild so certainly she knew the benefits of a constitutional monarchy for both the monarch and the people, even though she was raised in Germany.