Tsar Nicholas II (1868-1918) and Empress Alexandra Feodorovna (Alix) (1872-1918)


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
I've always felt especially sorry for the girls. Didn't Marie Feodorovna say that they were prisoners of their mother's paranoia? And maybe she had a point.
I agree. Alexandra never really let them out with others. They were rather socially handicapped.
Odette, Nicholas' uncles ALL gave him advice. All the time. He was just too stubborn to listen to reason. And it didn't help that Alexandra was always hammering on him to "Be the Tsar! You must take charge!" etc. etc. ad nauseum.
I think she was very cruel to take the children into exile with them. She should have sent them to England (if possible). Really. Or Finland. Anywhere but Russia.
 
I dont think she really thought they would hurt the children. Yes, previous Tsar's had been killed but not children to my knowledge. Or am I wrong with that assumption?
 
I dont think she really thought they would hurt the children. Yes, previous Tsar's had been killed but not children to my knowledge. Or am I wrong with that assumption?
You are correct on that. However, they were not living in safe times. She should have known this. To selfishly drag her children down with her was awful to say the least.
As a parent, I would move heaven and earth to get my children to safety. That, IMO, is a parents' job.
 
But like Zonk said, she probably had no reason to believe, that they would hurt the children.
 
You are correct on that. However, they were not living in safe times. She should have known this. To selfishly drag her children down with her was awful to say the least.
As a parent, I would move heaven and earth to get my children to safety. That, IMO, is a parents' job.

That is true. Alix was selfish in taking her children with her into exile. Although, I have wondered, if say, one of them had survived, like say, they had married Olga to a foreign prince or something like that, and she survived, that would possibly be very traumatic for her, perhaps scarring her for life. I don't know.
 
I dont think she really thought they would hurt the children. Yes, previous Tsar's had been killed but not children to my knowledge. Or am I wrong with that assumption?

I do not think she was realizing the situation. All her life she was not really understanding the reality of her life. On the other side, maybe she was affraid to let her children go, she was not confident.

But do we really know that they would let them go abroad???? I do not think so. This time it was a general revolution, not a simple attack to kill the tsar.
 
Good points on all aspects.

Let's face it...Alix was not meant to be the Tsar's wife. She was meant to be Nicholas wife becasue they adored each other but she wasn't ready for the responsibliities and the intrigue of the Russian Court.

I think she wanted her kids because what mother wouldn't want their kids to remain with them. I think if she knew how it would turn out or if there was a possiblity that the kids would have gotten hurt or killed she would have let them go.

I think the best chance they had of leaving Russia was the time when George V was asked about it. If he had said yes, I think things would have been different. At least the children would have been alive.
 
I think she wanted her kids because what mother wouldn't want their kids to remain with them.
All the time Zonk. However, it is a parents duty to let their children grow up and make lives of their own, no matter how bittersweet it is to the parent. She wouldn't even do that, always dressing them in the same outfits.
And therein lies the tragedy.
 
That is an excellent question. I, think, Alix's personality was one cause. She was morose and shy. She loved Nicholas a great deal and felt that autocracy was his due. She had few initmate friends in Russia and she surrounded herself with religious zealots and intolerant courtiers. Vikky was very intelligent and learned and understood the lesson of the changing world, I, think, Alexandra was overly bright and stuck to her guns out of fear.
I like this. IMO, it makes me think that Alix didn't know how to roll with the punches, so to speak in Russian. Or really anywhere. Because of this she stayed the course a la Titanic to disaster.

Careful Pamela! You'll give Russo a big head! :p
 
Read an interesting article about the religious views of Nicholas and Alexandra. They, especially she, seemed to welcome the "martyrdom" of being an Orthodox Christian, while the human nature welcomed the prospect of being rescued before the tragic massacre. Of special note, at least to me, was that Nicholas continued to blame the Jews for his downfall, whereas Alexandra was not so prejudiced against the Jews, and believed that other faiths should practice their beliefs. Alexandra even cautioned her husband to restrain the Russian troops from vandalizing mosques and shrines when it entered Turkey during the war.

She did believe, however, that God was punishing Russia because the Duma dared to remove her husband, who was anointed by God, from the throne. This belief clouded the royal couple from ever realizing that their policies might have also contributed to the revolution.
 
The only recording I could find of the Tsar's voice, from a military parade. The Tsar is heard briefly from 1:49 to 1:53, and again for longer from 2:09.
Thank you for posting this.:flowers: The Tsar's voice sounds better than I expected. How did you ever locate this?
 
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Thank you for posting this.:flowers: The Tsar's voice sounds better than I expected. How did you ever locate this?

You're welcome! I found it through some digging on Youtube. It has most historical figures of the past 100 years, and usually "(name of person) voice" is enough to bring up a recording.
 
Wonderful! I will need to check that out on youtube because I search it a lot when some celebrity or historical figure triggers my interest now and then.
 
How have they authenticated the voice? Just curious.
 
I read the translated program from Nicholas and Alexandra's wedding. In the order of procession, it was the dowager Empress (referred to as the Sovereign Empress throughout until the ceremony was completed, then afterwards referred to as Her Majesty the Empress Maria Feodrovna), Alexandra, Nicholas, King of Denmark, King and Queen of the Hellenes, Ernie, Alfred the Duke of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha and Maria (referred to as Her Imperial Highness Grand Duchess Maria Alexandrovna before Duchess of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha), then Bertie and Alexandra, farther back Irene of Prussia, and farther back still, Serge and Ella, then other various royals.

I did not see Victoria of Battenburg listed. She was Alexandra's oldest sister. Does anyone know if she attended the wedding? And if so, was she too minor of a royal to merit a specific mention in the programme?
 
How have they authenticated the voice? Just curious.

I do not know. I'd like to think it's the Tsar, as I have searched pretty thoroughly and Nicholas is perhaps the most difficult European emperor of the time to find a recording. Wilhelm, George V, Franz Joseph, political figures like Poincare, Lenin, Asquith, Wilson, etc. have recordings up, but this brief fragment is the only audio described as the Tsar that I have found. But I have no way of telling whether it is authentic.
 
I believe the sound track is from an old news clip which I believe I've heard on one of the history specials about WWI. I don't recall if it was repeated in one of the specials about Russia/Nicholas II and Alexandra.

It would be nice to track it down.

AGRBear
 
I was reading about the expenses of Empress Alexandra on another web site. It was thought that her collection of jewelry was the largest in the world, valued at over $50 million dollars in 1917 currency. Alexandra, unlike other Russian women, did not like to display her jewelry in glass and wooden cases for people to ooh and aah over. (I read that Grand Duchess Maria, daughter-in-law of Queen Victoria, displayed her jewelry in a specially designed room to show off her treasures).

Perhaps because of her relative lack of wealth while growing up in Hesse-Darmstadt, Alexandra kept a close eye on her expenses and also took her jewelry everywhere. She undoubtedly recognized that if the worst happened (which it did), the jewelry could be easily converted for money. And because she did not flaunt her possessions, the Soviets did not have a clear idea of the vast collection of her jewels. She only turned over the bulky items which could not be easily hidden -- such as the Faberge eggs (another reason may be that the eggs' existence was widely known in the country). Kerensky was reluctant to search the Empress and her daughters, which explains why the jewels were sewn into their clothing and possessions.

WOW, my 600th post!
 
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I think that Alexandra was very much like QEII regarding jewels - she had some simpler personal jewels she liked wearing but she just viewed the grandest pieces as an obligatory part of her appearance in public functions. Besides honestly they are terrific,but some of these Romanov jewels are very close to vulgar , so it seems very understandable to me that Alexandra, a princess from a small Pricipality raised in the english and german simple ways (and not willing to trasform herself and change her ways like other German princesses did upon arriving to Russia- like Aunt Miechen :D) would not truly enjoy them
 
Hi Snowflower--

I think you are correct that Alexandra did not go for all her jewelry; for example, she fought against her mother-in-law for the right to wear the crown jewels, then let it be known that she thought the jewels were old fashioned and not attractive. But I think she enjoyed jewels, some more than others, and saw that they could be used to procure necessities if and when things took a turn for the worse. But I think it was her reserved nature which prevented her from putting her jewels on display like the other grand women.
 
But interestingly enough, it sounds like an empress, who didn't put her jewelry on display and showed just how rich she was, would be less likely to be a target for revolutionaries. But then, she seems to have made a lot of other mistakes instead.
 
I think whether Alexandra put her jewels on display or not would not factor into revolutionary fever. There were many factors which brought about the revolution -- the war, poverty, unrest, displeasure with the Tsar and Tsarina, etc. The populace, for the most part, hated Alexandra and referred to her as "The German." Her jewels were probably not even considered by the revolutionaries but I am certain they were very happy to discover them after the abdication and murder of the royal family.
 
Yes, and I also acknowledged, that many other things happened, that would eventually lead to the revolution. But when it comes to jewels, or flaunting her riches in general, Alexandra interestingly seems to have been the opposite of Marie Antoinette, who in many other ways was a parallell to her.
 
Curiously enough, Alexandra seems to have had an interest in Martie-Antoinette. She had paintings that once belonged to MA in her Mauve Boudoir for example. But there were some more things (which I just read in Miranda Carter's book about Nicholas, Wilhelm and George....but somehow I completely forgot them already!)
 
You are right and at the time, the relatives who survived the Russian Revolution did not attach any significance to that fact but afterwards wondered if it was not some foreshadowing of the Imperial family's fate. I believe that Alexandra also owned some pieces of Marie Antoinette's jewelry and on a state visit to France shortly after her marriage and coronation, Alexandra was placed in a suite of rooms once occupied by the unfortunate Queen
 
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Genetic Relationships of Three First Cousins

Hi, I noticed that members were wondering about the relationship of Nicholas, George and Wilhelm and thought I could post this:

Maternally, Nicholas was the nephew of several monarchs, including George I of Greece, Frederick VIII of Denmark, Alexandra, Queen consort of the United Kingdom and the Crown Princess of Hanover.
Nicholas, his wife Alexandra, and Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany were all first cousins of King George V of the United Kingdom.

King George V (right) with his first cousin Tsar Nicholas II, Berlin, 1913. Note the close physical resemblance between the two monarchs.[5]

They were at a family gathering and switched each others uniforms confusing some of the guests.
 
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Hello, I have devoured every part of this fascinating thread and whilst I'm very conscious that most of you know much more than I about N and A, I nevertheless would like to share some thoughts with you.
I find it hard to see these people as autocrats, rather I see them as floundering through their world attempting to maintain the masks of what others believed they were, neither of them prepared or equipped for the position in which they found themselves. To find the reasons we must go back in time. Nicky's parents were powerful, confident people, probably, in part due to having many years of apprenticeship before they were cloaked by the heavy mantle of Tsardom. His uncles, strongminded and opinionated young men who N may have heroworshipped throughout his childhood, so with all these huge personalities around him it is likely that there was little room for him to express his own thoughts which may even have been dismissed as not worth listening to, thus we should not be surprised to learn, that as an adult his opinions were those of the last person with whom he had spoken. It is this (possible) scenario that shows us the type of personality of his future bride. He wouldn't have coped with a girl who had no opinions of her own, a girl for whom he had to do the thinking. In Alix he undoubtedly saw something he recognised and felt safe with, it has been labelled as many things in this thread - meddling, interfering bossing but the other side of the coin is helping, caring, encouraging all of which he would have experienced in his childhood and were very necessary to his somewhat diffident personality. To him, Alix was probably the part of him that had been missing, she was his support. they were perfect for each other because of their imperfections. As to Alix, a lonely, bereft little girl whose originally sunny disposition had too early been quelled by family losses, her new role model becomes her aging Granny who whilst as Queen was the ultimate Imperatrix, as a woman was entirely different, possibly feeling more at home with her servants than with the higher echelons, domestically a haus frau who I imagine saw no need to cover her little granddaughter in the trappings of luxury, indeed, when a clearly excited Alix showed off the jewels Nicky bestowed on her upon their engagement Granny admonished her not to become proud!!!! I feel that what the Russians mistook for aloofness was the crippling shyness and insecurity which stained her face and neck an unattractive crimsom. There was no easing in period for Alix, no time for her and Nicky to learn the ropes together, to mutually find their strengths and weaknesses, no dipping toes in water.They were thrown in at the deep end and expected to know what to do - and who was there who could possibly tell a Tsar what to do? Well, for starters there was his esteemed and well loved mother who was probably loth to give up her position and then there were his uncles who might have been trying to curry favour or genuinely trying to assist an absolute novice. His family members may well have realised that he was illprepared and unfit for the task.......but the loudest voice is likely to have been that of his wife who, I imagine would be damned if she would sit by and hear others telling her beloved husband how to rule!!! I wonder if it was a relief to him when Alix made her first show of strength? She would have known how to be a strong woman because her mother and grandmother would have demonstrated it but they had years of experience on their side......
.......and so we have this ideally suited couple who emotionally are equipped for nothing more arduous than the tasks of family and domesticity thrown centrestage into one of the most difficult political periods of the 20th century. Our times would wish for a happier finale - their time dictated that it wasn't to be.
 
:previous:

Welcome Tsarista!!:flowers:

I think you have touched upon the reasons why Nicholas and Alexandra were so unsuited to sit on the Russian throne. Yes, it was chance and fate which put N on the throne at such a young age and without guidance from his relatives, who indeed did try to overwhelm him and usually succeeded. And Alexandra was shy and reserved and this often was mistaken for being arrogant and cold. However, that only carries the royal couple so far and is not an excuse for their behavior. Essentially, they were unsuited to be autocrats and as recent events show, autocrats are often toppled by the public.

I don't think Nicky and Alicky would have even been much loved as constitutional monarchs, although that is just my opinion. The monarchs who shine are the ones who connected to their peoples and unfortunately, I am not sure N and A were able to do just that. They were a love match and probably would have been very happy to be an ordinary couple living ordinary lives.
 
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