Tsar Alexander III (1845-1894) and Empress Marie Feodorovna (Dagmar) (1847-1928) - Page 6

persian85033 · #**101** 05-05-2010, 03:57 PM

Alix was too stubborn. I think she never really realized this was Russia, not Hesse. In the Russian court things were different. She didn't really accept it, I think. She wanted to change things.

Minnie, her daughter, Xenia, and her granddaughter, Irina, are my most favorite Romanovs. Though there was one thing that puzzled me about Minnie. Wasn't her mother-in-law, Marie Alexandrovna German? She was Alix's great aunt or something, wasn't she? It never struck me that she would not like her mother-in-law like she did Alix. Anyone know how they got along?

Russophile · #**102** 05-05-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by persian85033

Though there was one thing that puzzled me about Minnie. Wasn't her mother-in-law, Marie Alexandrovna German? She was Alix's great aunt or something, wasn't she? It never struck me that she would not like her mother-in-law like she did Alix. Anyone know how they got along?

From Coryn Hall's book "Little MOther of Russia" (excellent book, btw, you should read it

. I think just about every library has it) I believe they loved Minnie and she them. When Marie got more and more ill, Minnie took over more and more of her duties. She (Minnie) was not happy with Alexander II when he moved his young mistress in the palace with his wife still alive. Protocol and disrespect, after all. . .

persian85033 · #**103** 05-06-2010, 02:14 PM

That's one of my favorite books! I had to buy it the first time I saw it. I've been looking for a chance to read it again, but time always gets in the way! There's never enough time to read.lolI'm a big reader, and I'd read books all day if I could.lol

Yes, she called Marie Alexandrovna little mama or something, I think. I believe she got along relatively well with Ella, too? But eventually, even Ella saw that Alix wasn't a very good tsarina.

One of the things I like most of this book is that it does show things more objectively. In some books about Alix, it portrays Minnie as not cruel, but in a bad light, and vice versa. This one shows more that they were very different women, they just had different ways of looking at things.

Russophile · #**104** 05-06-2010, 03:51 PM

I agree, it is an excellent very well objective book. Minnie sure got lucky finding a true love with Nixa and turning around and finding another in Alexander III.

pamela18335 · #**105** 06-27-2010, 06:40 PM

I'm a little late coming into the discussion, but I would like to elaborate on the causes of the Romanov's antisemitism. Firstly, one of Nicholas' teachers, Konstantin Pobedonostsev, who was defacto head of the Russian Orthodox Church, was virulently antisemitic. In this he was in total agreement with Alexander III, and he passed this hatred on to Nicky.

Secondly, much of Christianity, but especially the Orthodox Church, considered the Jews to be responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus; they were guilty of deicide. If not dogma, it was at least widely believed. (It was only in l965 that the Catholic Church took the public step of exonerating the Jewish people from this condemnation; I don't think that the Orthodox Church has done the same).

In Eastern Europe, antisemitism was not only acceptable, it was a "normal" point of view, and I think, remains so to this day, unfortunately.

persian85033 · #**106** 06-27-2010, 07:08 PM

The prejudice I really understand very little is them being so anti German. I mean, Marie Alexandrovna was German. She was Alix's great aunt, as well, I think. And wasn't Minnie herself half German, as well?

Vasillisos Markos · #**107** 06-27-2010, 08:25 PM

The hatred of the Germans, as far as Minnie was concerned, stemmed from a boundary dispute between Denmark and Prussia, Schleswig-Holstein, which Denmark lost. Queen Alexandra of Great Britain was anti-German because of this and caused friction among the British royal family because of her dislike of Germany. Then there was Willy (Kaiser Wilhelm), who was universally disliked by all of his relatives, even the Germans, and disliked by other monarchs. Add to this that many Germans, including Alix and her family, dislike the virulent attitude of Prussia, and you can see that many people dislike the Germans.

Vasillisos Markos · #**108** 08-18-2010, 03:49 PM

Wasn't Empress Marie also a fan of the Finns? I believe I read that she took a position opposite many of her government, including her husband and son, and tried to recall unpopular governor-generals from Finland because of "russification" efforts in that country. She even had the Finnish national anthem played on her imperial train carriage when she passed through the country.

Russophile · #**109** 08-18-2010, 06:50 PM

You are correct VM. Per Coryn Hall's book, Minnie took their side and always placated Alexander III when he tried to impose harsh laws upon them.

Vasillisos Markos · #**110** 08-18-2010, 09:21 PM

She must have been a remarkable woman. I wondered what made Minnie admire the Finns so much? Maybe they reminded her of the Danes or perhaps she sympathized because of coming from a relatively small country, both in world politics and size.

Russophile · #**111** 08-19-2010, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

She must have been a remarkable woman. I wondered what made Minnie admire the Finns so much? Maybe they reminded her of the Danes or perhaps she sympathized because of coming from a relatively small country, both in world politics and size.

Could be. I cannot remember what Coryn said in her book. Maybe someone who has the book on hand can enlighten us?

AGRBear · #**112** 09-24-2010, 12:33 PM

p. 353:

>>In Finland she is remembered as one of the most popular royal ladies. One museum has a chair from a peasant's cottage in Nyland, where she once sat while she chatted to the family. The fishing lodge at Langinkoski is open to the public every year tourtist come to see where the Empress of Russia cooked the meals while her husband fished for salmon.<<

Earlier PR for Dagmar on p. 111:

>>Dagmar first visited Finland in 1876, when she and Sasha, [future Alexander III], >>accompanied the Tsar and Tsarina to Helsinki. The people loved the informal way she went among them, spoke to the Swedish-speaking Finns in their own language and acted as interpreter for her parents-in-law and husband. Students followed her, singing the Danish Royal Anthem; girls presented flowers and recited poems. She won everybody's heart. Every summer afterwards they headed for a few week so relation in the Finnish archipelago.<<

There is more if you'd like me to add more.

AGRBeart

Russophile · #**113** 09-24-2010, 01:12 PM

I remember reading that. When did she learn Finnish? Is it similar to Danish?

Katrianna · #**114** 09-25-2010, 01:31 AM

I think Finnish is closer to the Hungarian language than Danish or any other Scandinavian dialects. I think I remember this from a guide in Budapest when I visited Hungary. Perhaps someone will add more info or correct me.

**MAfan** · #**115** 09-25-2010, 04:01 AM

Finnish is one of the Uralic languages, thus close to Hungarian and Estonian.

Katrianna · #**116** 09-26-2010, 12:25 AM

Thank you MAfan. I'm sure Marie endeared herself to the Finns by championing their land and causes plus even taking the time and effort to learn Finnish. She was very passionate and concerned about the people in her adopted country of Russia, it was a shame that her husband died young and that her daughter-in-law Alexandra couldn't have learned how to assume the role of Empress as her mother-in-law. That's an entirely different thread as we all know.

AGRBear · #**117** 09-26-2010, 12:48 PM

Dagmar >>...spoke to the Swedish-speaking Finns... <<.

Far as I know, she didn't speak Finnish.

Danish, Swedish, German... are similar.

AGRBear

COUNTESS · #**118** 09-26-2010, 02:39 PM

Finnish and Estonian are similiar. I doubt if she spoke Finnish. That is why when you're in Finland the signs are also in Swedish.

Cory · #**119** 04-04-2012, 02:01 PM

Eurohistory: A New Bust of the Dowager Empress Marie Feodorovna of Russia

Vasillisos Markos · #**120** 04-04-2012, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory

Eurohistory: A New Bust of the Dowager Empress Marie Feodorovna of Russia

My dear Cory,

Thank you very much for posting the link.

I smiled to myself when I read that Marie's nephew, the King of Denmark, was displeased when she found refuge in the royal palace. It appears that George V, another royal nephew of Marie, was also displeased when his aunt lived in royal residences in England. She must have been an imperious old lady.