Tsar Alexander III (1845-1894) and Empress Marie Feodorovna (Dagmar) (1847-1928)


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I was wondering, does anybody know if Dagmar shared her husbands strong anti-semite feelings? I can't recall to have read anything on the matter, which I found was a great flaw in the otherwise good biography by Corine Hall on Dagmar.
 
I read in a biography of Marie Feodorovna that one of her first actions as tsarevna was to compile a list of all the Jewish officers in her husband's military company so that he could dismiss them. But it was an old biography I read in my college library a long time ago and I can't remember the author or the title.

The book did quote the memoirs of a Russian official at the time and he remarked how enchanted everyone was with the young Maria Feodorvna but thought that she was a pretty airhead who liked nothing but clothes, jewels and dancing. He said everyone later was surprised to find that she held a lot of political influence over her husband and regretted that they hadn't taken her seriously before.
 
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I read in a biography of Marie Feodorovna that one of her first actions as tsarevna was to compile a list of all the Jewish officers in her husband's military company so that he could dismiss them. But it was an old biography I read in my college library a long time ago and I can't remember the author or the title.

The book did quote the memoirs of a Russian official at the time and he remarked how enchanted everyone was with the young Maria Feodorvna but thought that she was a pretty airhead who liked nothing but clothes, jewels and dancing. He said everyone later was surprised to find that she held a lot of political influence over her husband and regretted that they hadn't taken her seriously before.

She did love the parties, clothes and the jewels. In fact, one of her early fusses with Alexandra was over jewels. Traditionally, certain crown jewels were passed from one Russian empress to the next. Protocol required taht Alexandra wear the crwon jewels on formal occassions. When Nicholas asked Marie to give up the jewels, she refused. In the end, Marie did pass the jewels on to Alexandra to avoid a public scandal.
But she was not a pretty airhead and often advised Nicholas on political matters, which Alexandra hated.
 
But she was not a pretty airhead and often advised Nicholas on political matters, which Alexandra hated.

Well apparently this Russian official was not too fond of the advice Marie gave her husband either so I find it interesting to see how the general perception in public may have been different from the woman behind the scenes.
 
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Well apparently this Russian official was not too fond of the advice Marie gave her husband either so I find it interesting to see how the general perception in public may have been different from the woman behind the scenes.
I'm missing something here. To which Russian official are you referring?
 
I don't have his name because it was from a biography of Marie that I read a long time ago in college and I dont' have the name of the book or the author. But he is the official who told the author that while he and his peers were being enchanted by the pretty and apparently light-headed Tsarevna, Marie Feodorovna apparently had more political influence with her husband than they had imagined. From the quote, it didn't sound like he was too pleased with the influence.
 
That would have been an interesting book. Please post the title if you find it.:flowers:
 
Well it was a companion biography to one that was written for her sister Alexandra and it was very old. In fact I think it was written before WWI. The spelling of the word today was to-day. It was one of these obscure books that was written a long time ago and stuck in a college library somewhere but it really told a lot about Minnie's upbringing and her entry into the Russian court. The first cotillion she danced with her future husband Alexander III who stood in place of his brother the Tsarevich was fascinating reading.
 
Well it was a companion biography to one that was written for her sister Alexandra and it was very old. In fact I think it was written before WWI. The spelling of the word today was to-day. It was one of these obscure books that was written a long time ago and stuck in a college library somewhere but it really told a lot about Minnie's upbringing and her entry into the Russian court. The first cotillion she danced with her future husband Alexander III who stood in place of his brother the Tsarevich was fascinating reading.

I love finding books like that.
 
And it's a good thing that they haven't Fahrenheit 451'd us yet!! :D
 
Dagmar was Danish, as we all know. Queen Louise, her mother, used to refer to her daughters, as the"beautiful, the clever and the good. The "beautiful" was Queen Alexandra of England, the "clever" was Dagmar and the "good", was Princess Thyra. Dagmar was clever and knew how to manipulate. Alexander III loved her very much, so, if she had in any way, tried to stem his anti-semitism, he might have listened. But, then, only the very liberal English portion of royalty, such as King Edward VII and his sister Empress Victoria of Germany had any feelings or lack of prejudice for Jews.
 
Well, prejudice against jews is one thing, but Alexander III started several pogroms and initiated the May laws (or temporary laws) against jews. Of course Alexander wasn't alone in this, the press and the Russian public supported him, if not pushed him in this direction. I believe Alexander III accused Jews of being behind the assasination of his father btw.
 
Well, prejudice against jews is one thing, but Alexander III started several pogroms and initiated the May laws (or temporary laws) against jews. Of course Alexander wasn't alone in this, the press and the Russian public supported him, if not pushed him in this direction. I believe Alexander III accused Jews of being behind the assasination of his father btw.
That's what I don't understand about the Russian rulers why they exercised such a military might against the Jews?? The Jewish people didn't do anything to them, until later, weren't many of the revolutionaries Jewish?
 
Two words Russo: Religious persecution.
 
I think it was part of a general anti-Semtism.

I have also heard that the main criticism against the Grand Duke Mikhail's wife was that she was Jewish. Minnie and Olga refused to meet her.
 
It might also be that they refused to meet Natalia Brassova because she was a commoner and twice divorced. That is why Nicholas refused to give Mikhail permission to marry her. For some time the two lived together. In 1910 she gave birth to a son who was named after George. The couple secretly married in 1911. She did escape Russia, but died in poverty.
 
I am of the mind it was because she was twice divorced. Peter (Kurth) said that Michael was extremely pliable. Am wondering, with as strong a woman Minnie was and how she loved to dominate her children and their lives, did she view this woman as a threat? And being Jewish just compounded it??
 
She didn't view her as a threat exactly. It was more that the Dowager Empress was extremly serious about the importance of having a non-morganastic dynasty. She took House Law very seriously and was devastated when her children began to break the rules. She had always critisized the other GDs for their children's morganatic marriages and the idea that her own son would do such a thing broke her heart. No where in her journals does it mention her being jewish as the problem. She was so affraid for the dynasty and everyone was throwing her worries and beliefs back in her face. I would've refused to meet her as well.
 
Did she ever meet Capt. Kulliovsky (?), GD Olga's husband? I believe 'Little Mother of Russia' wrote that Minny did meet Olga's two sons at Hvidore.
 
Did she ever meet Capt. Kulliovsky (?), GD Olga's husband? I believe 'Little Mother of Russia' wrote that Minny did meet Olga's two sons at Hvidore.

Yes, she did meet Nikolai Alexandrovich Kulikovsky. She attended the wedding.
 
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I thought so. Because they were seeing each other when the war broke out. I believe that was from Ian Liliburn's book.
 
She, certainly, met Kulikovsky. She criticized other marriages, but received these Grand Duke and their spouses at balls. They were virulent anti-semites and, yes, many of the revoltionaries were Jews. Hatred breeds violence. Except for England, anti semitism was very acceptable.
 
Except for England, anti semitism was very acceptable.
This is a complete aside, but wasn't Edwina Ashley descendant from Jewish ancestry? Which tells me it was pretty stupid to be prejudice.
 
Yes, she was. Her father was Sir Ernest Cassell. He was a friend of Edward VII and was a great financier and helped Edward back to solvency and worth. Queen Victoria took note that her son befriended Jews. It wasn't that there was no anti-semitism in England, but it was not the only way.
 
Icompletly agree. HM AND HRM are the same, even HRM is redundant, diferent is the case HM and HIRM, as in the Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary, adressed as such, or HM, adressed in hungarian soil.
 
I agree that it was not that she was Jewish but that she was a commoner and married without permission from the Tsar. Michael was 2nd in line and it matters who he married as Alexis could have died at any time and therfore Michael woudl be 1st in line. It was this I think that was the problem not that she was jewish.
 
I didn't realize Natasha was Jewish. Her married name Wulfert may have been ( it sounds Jewish,) but her maiden name sounds entirely Russian. What books say she was Jewish?
 
Wulfert was a Guards officer, so highly unlikely that he was Jewish. To me the name simply sounds German.
 
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