Tsar Alexander III (1845-1894) and Empress Marie Feodorovna (Dagmar) (1847-1928)

[betina]

Actually they have opened the room where her coffin is so people can see it before she is traveling to Russia. So hurry if you want to see it in Roskilde Domkirke.

[Charlottesville]

But I thought Marie had been reburied in 2001?

[Ritka]

No, I believe they kept putting it off and changing the date.

[Charlottesville]

Originally Posted by Poppy

Again with the last Tsar.

Is that Nicky? It looks alot like Grand Duke George Alexandrovich.

[juliamontague]

It's indeed Georgiy
Here is the whole picture, the children are Nicholas, Ksenia and Georgiy

[RussianHistoryBuff]

Something that is often overlooked is the fact that Dagmar of Denmark [later Marie Fedorovna Tsaritsa of All Russias] was originally bethrothed to Nicholas Alexandrovich [son of Alexander II, not Tsar Nicholas II]. On his deathbed, he told Alexander Alexandrovich [Alexander II] to marry Dagmar. Nicholas died of Bronchitis. His illness came from and infection to the lungs after a fall while wrestling [like all true Romanovs love]. The illness started as bronchitis and became turburcolosis. Ironically his father freed the Russian serfs, and he died in the same year that the United States ended their Civil War. [1865]

[juliamontague]

photos of the engagement of Dagmar and Nicholas




They were such a lovely couple, too bad that it ended that soon.

[Warren]

A welcome back for Mapple.
Courtesy Dag T Hoelseth and www.bombaystamps.com

Tsar Alexander III

[Mapple]

Warren, thank you very much for welcoming me back on to the board! :)

wetken, your idea regarding the apology is good, but it won't come to pass. First of all, the present Russian government has distanced itself from the Bolshevik government of 1918, even from the Soviet government of 1991; not to mention that Yeltsin did apologize for the crimes of the Soviet government -- by putting the Stone of Memory next to Lubyanka. Each year Russians commemorate the victims of Lenin and Stalin there.

Secondly, the idea of a separate solemn apology for Romanovs' massacre won't probably go very well with Putin -- why should he single out the monarchic victims of Lenin? There is no immediate political gain from that... I know that I'm sounding cynical now, but that's the way it is. Probably I'm wrong and Putin will go all the way, bury Lenin, apologize for Yekaterinburg and other Soviet crimes (there are several of them left that really are a no-no for discussion in Russia...)

A bit of trivia -- Volkogonov wasn't a KGB general, he served in the Army; nevertheless, his books are well worth reading, especially his biographies of Lenin and Stalin, and Volkogonov's portrait of Chernenko in 'The Seven Leaders' is a must-read for everyone who is a Soviet history buff! :)

[jmjjmj]

I recently acquired in Paris a set of three original photographs of the Vladimirovichi in a folding leather display portfolio. The photographs can be dated to about 1885-6 because of the apparent age of their youngest child, G.D. Helena, who appears to be 3 or 4.

The photograph in the middle is of G.D. Vladimir and his wife. The one on the right is the Grand Duchess and her four children (the back was labeled in French with the names and titles and Vladimir spelled with a “W”).

The one on the left appears to have the three Vladimirovichi boys with two other male adults. The one in the white uniform looks to me like Tsar Alexander, though his beard is shorter than I have seen it otherwise. The other one I first guessed to be G.D. Pavel. However, the Hussar uniform he is wearing is not decorated with the cords that I have otherwise seen in pictures of G.D. Pavel. Also, the man in the photo has less hair on his forehead than I have seen in photos of Pavel.

The photos have an embossed old-style cyrillic word at the bottom, presumably the name of photographic studio. In transliterated Russian it appears to me to be: Levtuxii . Also, the leather portfolio has the following on the back: Tonnel, 12 rue de la Paix, Paris. I checked and there is no company of that name presently at the address mentioned.

The provenance of the photos is also somewhat of a mystery.

The dealer is reputable, someone I met originally on a previous trip to Paris eight years ago. He is almost 90 and of Russian origin, though he left Russia in the 1960s. He told me he purchased them around 1970 in Rome from a relative (variously granddaughter or niece) of the former governess of G.D. Olga, the dowager Queen of Greece who was a daughter of G.D. Konstantin Nikolaevich. He also gave me reason on at least one of my visits to conclude that they had originally belonged to the Olga herself.

The specifics differed slightly during the three times I visited him, but that can be understood given his age and health and the fact that his daughter was on one occasion prompting him to recite again the provenance.

One corroborating fact is that eight years ago he had for sale a large leather portfolio containing two oval glass-covered photographs of G.D. Pavel and his first wife, Alexandra of Greece, who was Queen Olga’s daughter. (I foolishly delayed my decision to purchase it for a month during which it sold to someone else). He told me that all his Russian imperial artifacts came from this one purchase).

All that being said, why would Queen Olga’s governess (or perhaps more likely Queen Olga herself) have had three photos of the Vladimirovichi? Perhaps it was normal for members of the Imperial Family to share photos back and forth.

Any help identifying/confirming my identification as well as speculation on their provenance would be very much appreciated.

[Marengo]

I was wondering, does anybody know if Dagmar shared her husbands strong anti-semite feelings? I can't recall to have read anything on the matter, which I found was a great flaw in the otherwise good biography by Corine Hall on Dagmar.

[ysbel]

I read in a biography of Marie Feodorovna that one of her first actions as tsarevna was to compile a list of all the Jewish officers in her husband's military company so that he could dismiss them. But it was an old biography I read in my college library a long time ago and I can't remember the author or the title.

The book did quote the memoirs of a Russian official at the time and he remarked how enchanted everyone was with the young Maria Feodorvna but thought that she was a pretty airhead who liked nothing but clothes, jewels and dancing. He said everyone later was surprised to find that she held a lot of political influence over her husband and regretted that they hadn't taken her seriously before.

[lexi4]

Originally Posted by ysbel

I read in a biography of Marie Feodorovna that one of her first actions as tsarevna was to compile a list of all the Jewish officers in her husband's military company so that he could dismiss them. But it was an old biography I read in my college library a long time ago and I can't remember the author or the title.

The book did quote the memoirs of a Russian official at the time and he remarked how enchanted everyone was with the young Maria Feodorvna but thought that she was a pretty airhead who liked nothing but clothes, jewels and dancing. He said everyone later was surprised to find that she held a lot of political influence over her husband and regretted that they hadn't taken her seriously before.

She did love the parties, clothes and the jewels. In fact, one of her early fusses with Alexandra was over jewels. Traditionally, certain crown jewels were passed from one Russian empress to the next. Protocol required taht Alexandra wear the crwon jewels on formal occassions. When Nicholas asked Marie to give up the jewels, she refused. In the end, Marie did pass the jewels on to Alexandra to avoid a public scandal.
But she was not a pretty airhead and often advised Nicholas on political matters, which Alexandra hated.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by lexi4

But she was not a pretty airhead and often advised Nicholas on political matters, which Alexandra hated.

Well apparently this Russian official was not too fond of the advice Marie gave her husband either so I find it interesting to see how the general perception in public may have been different from the woman behind the scenes.

[lexi4]

Originally Posted by ysbel

Well apparently this Russian official was not too fond of the advice Marie gave her husband either so I find it interesting to see how the general perception in public may have been different from the woman behind the scenes.

I'm missing something here. To which Russian official are you referring?

[ysbel]

I don't have his name because it was from a biography of Marie that I read a long time ago in college and I dont' have the name of the book or the author. But he is the official who told the author that while he and his peers were being enchanted by the pretty and apparently light-headed Tsarevna, Marie Feodorovna apparently had more political influence with her husband than they had imagined. From the quote, it didn't sound like he was too pleased with the influence.

[Russophile]

That would have been an interesting book. Please post the title if you find it.

[ysbel]

Well it was a companion biography to one that was written for her sister Alexandra and it was very old. In fact I think it was written before WWI. The spelling of the word today was to-day. It was one of these obscure books that was written a long time ago and stuck in a college library somewhere but it really told a lot about Minnie's upbringing and her entry into the Russian court. The first cotillion she danced with her future husband Alexander III who stood in place of his brother the Tsarevich was fascinating reading.

[lexi4]

Originally Posted by ysbel

Well it was a companion biography to one that was written for her sister Alexandra and it was very old. In fact I think it was written before WWI. The spelling of the word today was to-day. It was one of these obscure books that was written a long time ago and stuck in a college library somewhere but it really told a lot about Minnie's upbringing and her entry into the Russian court. The first cotillion she danced with her future husband Alexander III who stood in place of his brother the Tsarevich was fascinating reading.

I love finding books like that.

[Russophile]

And it's a good thing that they haven't Fahrenheit 451'd us yet!!