Russian Orthodoxy and the Romanovs

[Cory]

During the last centuries the destiny of the russian Orthodoxy was very linked with that of the Romanovs.The father of the first Romanov who reigned was a patriarch, Peter I abolished the organization of the Church and preferred the so called Procurator of the Holy Synod, The Patriarchy was re-established after the fall of Nicholas II,in exile the Russian Orthodoxy remained faithful to the Imperial House.
How do you see this link beween the Russian Orthodoxy and the Imperial House in the history and today?

 

[Lenora]

Of course,Russian Orthodoxy had a great importance during the Romanovs' reign and previous one,it was a very strong relation between Church and State,just like it was Catholic one for other historical kingdoms.But after the revolution in 1917,Church lost its importance and privileges,it 's a separate page if we take the Russian Orthodox Church separately.
In present times,the Orthodox Church is very important and it's the most important religion,but there is no direct relation between Church and state.After the Canonization of the last Tsar and his family,Church contributed to the restauration of historical values of Romanovs.
Recently there was information that GD Maria Vladimirovna would like to be the ambassador of Russia or Russian Orthodox Church in Vatican,but I am not sure about her role now.

 

[Cory]

Grand Duchess Maria paid a visit to Pope Benedict XVI but I do not know if she wants to be involved in the catholic-orthodox dialogue.
During the communism only the Russian Orthodox Church from abroad sustained the Romanovs while the russian Orthodox Church ,after many persecutions, accepted a sort of "modus vivendi" with the bolshevics.

 

[Midwestern Mom]

So why do you think she meet with pope Benedict?


MM

 

[Cory]

Pope Benedict XVI uses to receive members of the Royal Families reigning or not.Patriarch Kyrill would not accept to be represented in fron of the Pope by somebody else than a Bishop.
Grand Duchess Maria would not be able to solve the difficulties between the Holy See and the Russian Orthodox Church (especially the problem of the relations in Ukraine between greek-catholics and orthodox).

 

[Midwestern Mom]

Yes I know the pope receives reigning (or not reigning) monarchs....and I understand that she would have nothing to do with repairing relations between the East and West ...it's a pretty complex divide.

Perhaps she just met with the pope out of courtesy/respect.


MM

 

[Al_bina]

The Russian Orthodox Church has got its diplomats, who do not need extra help.

 

[Cory]

I suppose it was just a normal audience but surely she had inform before Patriarch Kyrill.She seems to be orthodox but quite ecumenical.

 

[Kasumi]

... she had inform before Patriarch Kyrill...

Why should she?
Besides, she resides in Spain, not in Moscow.

 

[Cory]

Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna is very faithful and she would have never done a gesture of this importance without the advice of Patriarch Kirill.

 

[Kasumi]

Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna is very faithful and she would have never done a gesture of this importance without the advice of Patriarch Kirill.

Are you an insider, Cory?
You are making the statements 'carved in stone' without any proof this evening.
Either you are a member of the 'imperial court', or you are making allegations, which are forbidden at TRF.

 

[Cory]

I pass over your irony ( it is not for the first time)...
From all her appearances it is obvious Grand Duchess Maria is a very faithful orthodox and that's not a secret for anybody.
On the other hand she went there with the blessing of the patriarch:

Royal Russia News - Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna Meets With Pope Benedict XVI

 

[Lumutqueen]

This thread is about Russian Orthodoxy and The Romanovs, yes? So far not one actual Romanov and their ties with the church has been dicussed.

 

[Cory]

Maybe you'd betther read the posts of this thread again because we have discussed only that:Grand Duchess Maria and Orthodoxy.

http://www.imperialhouse.ru/eng/allnews/news/2011/2618.html

 

[Lumutqueen]

I have read the posts, well the interesting ones.

This thread, which you created, is entitled Russian Orthodoxy and the Romanovs not Russian Orthodoxy and (pretender to the throne) Grand Duchess Maria.

I would be quite interested in the topic if some one could provide some information about the links to the church that Alexandra, Nicholas, the children, Alexander II & III had.

 

[Lenora]

These are some links about last Tsar's relation with Church,his eventual canonization and the other details
CHURCH AND MONARCHY IN RUSSIA - a knol by Lev Regelson
Canonization of the Romanovs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Miracles Of The Tsar Martyr Nicholas II

 

[Lumutqueen]

Thank you Leonora, i've just done a module for my A-level on Russia and its Rulers but we barely touched upon the church and it's effect.

 

[Cory]

Now 6 members of the Imperial Family are considered Saints:Nicholas II, Empress Alexandra, the 5 children of the couple and Grand Duchess Elisabeta Feodorovna (widow of Grand Duke Serge).

 

[Grandduchess24]

The Romanov family were quite devout and prayed alot while at the ipatiev house and Alexandra had many icons.

 

[COUNTESS]

Now 6 members of the Imperial Family are considered Saints:Nicholas II, Empress Alexandra, the 5 children of the couple and Grand Duchess Elisabeta Feodorovna (widow of Grand Duke Serge).

Their standard for saints doesn't seem to have a measure, except death.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Are they considered "saints" or "passion bearers" by the Russian Orthodox Church?

 

[Benedict XVI]

Are they considered "saints" or "passion bearers" by the Russian Orthodox Church?

Passion bearers. Do you know the difference between the two?

 

[Rhys82192]

Were the Romanovs canonized by the Roman Catholic Church?

 

[AristoCat]

Mmmm, no because they were Orthodox, not Roman Catholic.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Passion bearers. Do you know the difference between the two?

My dear Benedict XVI,

I believe a passion bearer accepts his or her death with what some call a "Christ like" resignation. In other words, a passion bearer accepts that the death will occur and yet he or she holds fast to his or her religious beliefs and accepts the death as part of God's will. A saint is usually a martyr who dies for his or her religious beliefs, such as the saints who would not renounce Christianity and were then put to death for those beliefs. In this case, Nicholas and Alexandra were not killed because of their religious beliefs but because they were the rulers of an overthrown government. Yet, they were deeply religious and the Church called them passion bearers.

 

[Benedict XVI]

Ok thank you I was not sure. From the accounts I read about they were very brave. And even tried to do the sign of the cross which does show they were willing to take what god gave them.

 

[Alexey 1904]

You are entitled to your opinion, COUNTESS. GD Elisabeth did beome a nun with her own convent, order and church. But, I think she can be classified as a 'martyr' instead of a 'saint'.. Alexandra converted to Orthodoxy and seemed very pious, but wasn't what one outside of Russia considered a saint. Neither was Nicholas. But Elisabeth is the only one who should be considered as a canonized saint. Every Christian religion has different rules for what they believe and practice. It seems to me that the Imperial Family should have done more 'saintly' things. But then again, I guess it doesn't take much more than dying to become a saint in Russian Orthodoxy!

 

[Alexey 1904]

Dear VM: I guess then GD Elisabeth should be considered a 'passion bearer' instead of 'martyr' or 'saint'. So, I guess that means that 'passion bearers' can be canonized in the Russian Orthodox church?

 

[COUNTESS]

In many ways Ella was saintly, after Segei's death. The others were victims. The children assuredly. But there was no reason to murder Alix and Nichiolas, either. They just weren't "saints".

 

[Iluvbertie]

There was every reason to kill Nicholas and the children - they would have been the focus for groups to rebel against the new government - get rid of them and the focus has no legs.