Romanovs and the Revolution: What Happened and How Did the Survivors Manage?

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by branchg

Paul Illyinsky inherited his mother's considerable legacy (Audrey Emery was the heiress to the Singer sewing machine fortune) and lived in a mansion in Palm Beach.

I thought Audreys father was a Cincinatti real estate magnate

[branchg]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

I thought Audreys father was a Cincinatti real estate magnate

Yes, but her mother was a Singer sewing machine heiress. She had two very wealthy parents and her descendants remain very well-off.

[Al_bina]

Francis Mathew: Russian-Scottish 'royal' seeks TV love match in The Batchelor Ukraine | Mail Online

He is a descendant of Russia's last czar - and has lived in the jungle, starred in Bollywood movies and trained as a stuntman.
Now Scottish photographer Francis Mathew is in a new adventure: finding a bride on a reality TV show in Ukraine.
Mathew, the great-great-nephew of Nicholas II, is the star of the second season of Ukraine's version of the popular U.S. show The Bachelor - in which an unmarried man picks a fiancee through a series of dates and romantic getaways.
Mathew is the son of Princess Olga Andreevna Romanov, 61, whose father, Prince Andrei Alexandrovich, was the nephew of Nicholas II, Russia's last czar.

Spletnik -Mathew Frances in the "Bachelor Show"

[Baronessan]

Originally Posted by Baronessan

I just lately went to Anna´s grave. It is maintained very actively by some private person. Huge amount of planted flowers - 8 nonmatching diffrent colours - very russian style. Burning candels. On the tomb there is a tiny church where is a glass door. Through the door you can see some miniature icons and a pictures of the imperial family.

Somebody is really taking care of her.

Best regards
Baronessan

Here is my latest picture of Anna Vurubova's grave in Helsinki.

[Baronessan]

Originally Posted by Russophile

To whom are you referring? I didn't think any of them married into the BRF.

Miechen -> Helén -> Marina (Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent)

[CyrilVladisla]

It was unfortunate that the Grand Duke Cyril Vladimirovich, his wife Victoria, and their children had to move so much from Finland, Germany, and France.
If only his aunt, Dowager Empress Marie Feodorovna, would have recognized Cyril as Emperor of Russia.

[COUNTESS]

She never would recognize that Nicky and the children were dead. And she despised Kyril.

[CyrilVladisla]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

She never would recognize that Nicky and the children were dead. And she despised Kyril.

It is understandable that poor Marie Feodorovna would hope beyond hope that her Nicholas and the grandchildren still lived.
Did she utter any opinions about her daughter-in-law?
Marie Feodorovna may have the distinction of being an Empress and a Dowager Empress. But does her title give her the opportunity to despise her own nephew?
Cyril was a Grand Duke by blood. His Aunt Marie married into the Imperial Family.

[COUNTESS]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

It is understandable that poor Marie Feodorovna would hope beyond hope that her Nicholas and the grandchildren still lived.
Did she utter any opinions about her daughter-in-law?
Marie Feodorovna may have the distinction of being an Empress and a Dowager Empress. But does her title give her the opportunity to despise her own nephew?
Cyril was a Grand Duke by blood. His Aunt Marie married into the Imperial Family.

It is not a question of what she was entitled to feel or think, it is what she felt and thought. Cyril married his cousin Ducky (Victoria Melita) and did so against the church and The Tsar's forbiddance. She felt the Vladnir's were trying to usurp her son Nicky. She, didn't much care of her daughter-in-law either and felt she was to blame for many of the situations they were in. It is foolish to ask why someone thought or felt....it is. Her daughter Olga, thought that somewhere along the line she knew they were dead, but never would speak aloud of that.

[AristoCat]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

She never would recognize that Nicky and the children were dead. And she despised Kyril.

Rightly if I may add; the entire clan was trying constantly to get to the top and everyone in the Imperial Family never liked him or his descendants. Even before anything was definitive, already Kiril was proclaiming himself the Head of the House of Romanov.

[Chubb Fuddler]

The Soviet government officially announced the execution of Emperor Nicholas II about three days after it took place. The New York Times stated that:

There seemingly is no question that yesterday's dispatch is authentic. It comes in the form of a Russian wireless dispatch, and as the wireless plants of Russia are under the control of the Bolsheviki, it appears that it is an official version of the death of the former Emperor.

Six years later, when it was pretty obvious that neither the Tsesarevich or Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich had survived, Grand Duke Kirill Vladimirovich assumed the position of Head of the Imperial House. Not exactly a rushed decision. It is irrelevant what other members of the Imperial House thought about Grand Duke Kirill Vladimirovich. He was right; his cousins were dead and he had succeeded as Head of the Imperial House.

[COUNTESS]

There are those in the family that stated that his conduct and marrying Ducky, put him out of the running. I do not care, as it is a fight for nothing. He can be King of the Hill.

[Chubb Fuddler]

Succession was governed by the law, and it was according to the law that Grand Duke Kiril Vladimirovich succeeded his cousin. A case can be made that his marriage knocked him out of line of succession. But Emperor Nicholas II recognised the marriage in 1908, and Kilril Vladimirovich was considered third in line to the throne. His public support of the Provincial Government in 1917 may have been in poor taste, but that was not enough to legally exclude him from the line of succession (which, theoretically at least, had some possible purpose until Russia became a republic on 14 September 1917.)

It is hard to find anything particularly admirable about Grand Duke Kirill Vladimirovich. His actions were often self-serving and ill timed, and he made himself look foolish by assuming the title of Emperor in 1924. But, according to the laws and traditions of the Russian Empire, he was the next in line. I don't know what sort of Emperor he would have made if things had gone differently in 1917/1918. It is hard to imagine a reign more disastrous than Nicholas II's, so maybe he might have been a change for the better. We'll never know.

[Baronessan]

In her senior years in Finland Anna Vurubova was wearing this black bandeau, which, I just lately learned, was a sign of lady-in-waiting.

[Baronessan]

Originally Posted by Chubb Fuddler

Succession was governed by the law, and it was according to the law that Grand Duke Kiril Vladimirovich succeeded his cousin. A case can be made that his marriage knocked him out of line of succession.

Well, Dagmar's son Nikolai abdicated by himself and behalf of his son when he was still alive. Nikolai was not anymore the Tsar. Nikolai's brother Mikhail refused the crown and was married to a commoner. The fourth in line was Cyril - and it was his status already during Nikolai's reign.
The case is very clear and it was'nt at all in Dagmar's hands or dependant on her likes or dislikes.

Kiril's marriage to Melita was equal - he did not marry a commoner. Well, it was not blessed and negotiated by the tsar, but he accepted it later. Melita's previous marriage with Alexandra's brother Ernst was not blessed by orthodox church thus the marriage could be considered nonvalid (concerning last paragraph I'm freely quoting book Romanovs - Tsarsläkten /Finnish edition page 134 - written by Staffan Scott)

[COUNTESS]

Originally Posted by Baronessan

Well, Dagmar's son Nikolai abdicated by himself and behalf of his son when he was still alive. Nikolai was not anymore the Tsar. Nikolai's brother Mikhail refused the crown and was married to a commoner. The fourth in line was Cyril - and it was his status already during Nikolai's reign.
The case is very clear and it was'nt at all in Dagmar's hands or dependant on her likes or dislikes.

Of course, not. But Kyril wore and flew the Red Cockcade, putting him in dubious association. That is the family view. I have no objection to him and anyone else who wants to proclaim themselves Tsar of a throne that has been non-existent for close to 100 years.

[Baronessan]

Dear Countess,

In my comments it must have been obvious that it is not about the family view but of the Imperial Law.
I think we all are aware that we are discussing this interesting detail in the context of "Non-Reigning Houses".

Yours Sincerely
Baronessan

[COUNTESS]

Originally Posted by Baronessan

Dear Countess,

In my comments it must have been obvious that it is not about the family view but of the Imperial Law.
I think we all are aware that we are discussing this interesting detail in the context of "Non-Reigning Houses".

Yours Sincerely
Baronessan

Dear Baronessan:

Imperial Law exists when there is an Empire. That has been gone, almost 100 years. I have no dog in this hunt. If it is the Grand Duke's family that should be in the heirs, I have no fight. It is fine with me. But, as I am aware that there are actual Romanovs that would argue this point.

Sincerely,
Countess

[Chubb Fuddler]

As Baronessan says, we are all aware that the laws of the Russian Empire ceased to have any legal standing in 1917. But, oddly enough, some people enjoy hypothetical discussions on the premise that such laws are still in place. It's a natural part of our curiosity to ask "what if...?" A forum on "Non Reigning Houses" seems an appropriate place to have such discussions. This has been pointed out to Countess many times, but she comes back time and again to state the bleedin' obvious, in a tone so dismissive that it dampens the enjoyment of other contributors. I don't understand what motivates such wet blanket comments. Comments that also suggest anything but indifference.

[Baronessan]

I' ve now learned to know that Elena Wladimirovna was not too popular in George V's England, but for example Xenia was. Of course Xenia was Dagmar' s daughter which made Alexandra to be her aunt, and xenia was also a cousin to George. Grand duchess Elena Wladimirovna was the duke of Kent's mother in law - so I would think her almost as family member.
Does somebody know why she was'nt that popular?