Romanov Rescue 1917-1919: Action and Inaction

[snowflower]

sorry for this enormous message of mine I didn't realise it got so big I have posted very few times

[CarolinaLandgrave]

In both, am I correct in my thinking, it was actually King George V's prime minister and government that decided not to attempt to rescue the Czar and his immediate family AND they are the same that chose to aid Prince Andrew.
King George managed to get diplomatic channels in White Russia to get the Dowager Empress and Xenia and Olga & families out... b/c they were not associated directly with the autocracy. Correct?

[kell]

nope it was king geroge himself fearing a revoltion in his own country that decided

[CarolinaLandgrave]

I had always read that it was due to his government's not wanting to seem sympathetic to the autocracy.... as it would then look unfavorable on King George V. Either case being.... it plagued King George the rest of his life knowing that he didn't save his kin, especially Alexandra and the children. (Not that Alexandra wasn't to blame, in my opinion, for a great deal of the mess, but she was a woman).

[snowflower]

I don't thik king George was the only one who decided not to let them in the country, the politicians were afraid as well. Do you think the politicians would like to let the political system be endagrered since it was thanks to this particural political systen that they gained power? George V might have beeen afraid for his position but certainly he was not the only one afraid to lose something.

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Taking the personal out of it... and looking at it from a politicians vantage point and not a monarchs (though, in this case, the monarch had encountered the same issues - there were many who though King George and Queen Mary and many members of the Royal Family may harbor German sympathies)..... Since so many rumors (and they were rumors, from all I have read) where whirling about Russia concerning Empress Alexandra being a German spy..... do you think that may have also impacted the decision not to grant the Imperial Family asylum?

[kell]

if i remember theres a dramatzion of it in lostprince about the decsion but your are correct carolinalandgrave

[CarolinaLandgrave]

In my heart of hearts.... I believe King George woulda rescued the Imperial Family if his government woulda let him & the anti-German hysteria hadn't gripped Britain.... King George, I think, was in his heart a good man.

but all those are "IFs".... and as my grandmama used to say "IF a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump his butt when he hopped"

[Dierna23]

ROYAL BLOG: PRINCE MICHAEL BIDS TO CLEAR GEORGE V'S NAME OVER TSAR'S DEATH

He does a fair amount of business in Russia and trades on the family connection, even though it has always been a matter of regret inside the British Royal Family that the Queen - and Prince Michael's - grandfather George V failed to help rescue Nicholas and his family when they were toppled by the Russian revolution.

But now the Queen's cousin, who was named after Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich, the last Tsar's younger brother, has gone public on what he says were plans drawn up by the then King to rescue his Russian cousin and other members of the family.

http://www.express.co.uk/blogs/post/...r-Tsar-s-death

[Vasillisos Markos]

Did anyone see this programme? I think King George V was in a tight position and I always thought it was his government, not the King, who revoked the offer of asylum. Indeed, I imagine his mother, Queen Alexandra, would be none too pleased that her son changed his mind about her sister's family and then they were later massacred.

Hey, my 200th post!

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Congrats on 200!
Yes, I also think it was more the government of Britain who didn't want to be associated with the autocracy rather than any personal feelings of King George and Queen Mary.

[Russophile]

There were a lot of political machinations going on with this. Bruce Lockheart (From the book: Moura: The Dangerous life of Baroness Budberg) was rather hoping the Bolshies could be supported by the Allies to defeat the Germans. The Germans didn't want to recognize the Bolshie government because they deposed their Tsar and the others, France and Great Britian were loathe to do so as well. (It was one thing for them to ship Lenin in to blow the whole thing up, it was quite another when royal heads started rolling. . .)

[Vasillisos Markos]

I just now finished reading all of the posts on this thread -- whew! Fascinating stuff, eh? I believe that the Royal Family's only hope of salvation was in the Kerensky government--if the allied powers had acted quickly, the family might have been rescued. But once Lenin seized power, their unfortunate fate was sealed.

And therein lies the rub--up to that point, no one really had any idea what the Russian government was capable of doing. There was much dilly-dallying by all involved but I think that most politicians could not even conceive that the entire family would be slaughtered. I mean, come on, the children were innocent no matter what Nicholas and Alexandra may have done while on the throne. This unexpected action, more than anything else, may have been the cause of the Romanovs' deaths because there might not have been the sense of urgency to rescue them.

[snowflower]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

There was much dilly-dallying by all involved but I think that most politicians could not even conceive that the entire family would be slaughtered. I mean, come on, the children were innocent no matter what Nicholas and Alexandra may have done while on the throne. This unexpected action, more than anything else, may have been the cause of the Romanovs' deaths because there might not have been the sense of urgency to rescue them.

I believe that really no one expected the whole family to be secretely executed. But I do think that every politician who wans't stupid could see that the Tsar had little or no chances to leave this country alive and that his wife would follow him to his death. But no one really expected their children to be executed. Even during the Russian Revolution, Louis and Marie Antoinette were sent to the guilottine, but Marie Louise and the Dauphin were spared. Sure the Dauphin died of deliberate negligence but no one ever led him of his sister to the firing squad. I believe that the worst scenarion that ever passed the British politicians' mind was a public show trial and an execution of the Tsar and his wife, Alexei being locked up somewhere perhaps and OTMA exiled for life from Russia. After all , why kill them, they were girls and a whole bunch of male relatives would have to die before they could even begin to claim the throne . ( not to mention that withe the Vladimirovitchi cousins alive, there was no chance of changing the Pauline laws if the girls survived). And I believe that this is also the worst scenario that ever crossed Alexandra and Nichola's mind. They were worried about their fate, they were certainly worried about Alexei's fate but I think that somewhere deep inside them they weren't worried for a long time about their daughter being killed. And maybe that's why Alexandra made sure that each girl would have sewn all these precious jewels in their clothes before leaving for exile, because she wanted to secure financially the girls for a future away from Russia even if she and her husband didn't survive.

[Russophile]

I found it highly selfish of Alix and Nicky to drag their children with them to their deaths. They should have at least made safe passage for them through Finland to get them out of the country. Minnie had an excellent relationship with Finland, they would have done anything for her. Or they should have sent them to the Crimea with Minnie and co. As a parent, I would have moved heaven and earth to send my children to safety, it's not like they didnt have the resources or the chance to do it. Yet there they were, just sitting ducks. It really makes me angry that they thought nothing of their children or their safety, just the need to be together as a family.

[CarolinaLandgrave]

If I were a betting man, I'd say that was Alexandra Feodorovna to a tee!
Like you, Russo, I would move heaven and earth to make sure those I loved most were out of harms way - if that meant separation, so be it!

[pamela18335]

Does anyone care to comment on the British Government and/or George V's refusal of asylum to the Imperial Family after Nicholas' abdication? Initial reports were that George would offer the family asylum, which was later completely refuted.

George V's cowardice?
Lloyd George's influence?

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts!

[Vasillisos Markos]

I believe it was the more the influence of the British government which would not agree to allow the Tsar and his family into Great Britain

[COUNTESS]

I think the government felt it was ill advised and George V was worried enough not to overstep his bounds. I am sure it haunted him in the aftermath. But hindsight is always 20/20.

[JamesHarris]

Originally Posted by AGRBear

More on Captain Stephen Alley:

British spies in plot to save tsar - Times Online

>> From The Sunday Times
October 15, 2006
British spies in plot to save tsar
John Crossland

A NEWLY discovered diary has uncovered a plot by the British secret services to rescue the last tsar and his family from the house in Ekaterinburg where he was imprisoned by the communists and later executed.

The diary of Captain Stephen Alley, second in command of the British intelligence mission in Petrograd — now St Petersburg — shows he positioned four undercover agents ready to extract what he called “the valuables” — the deposed Tsar Nicholas II and the Russian imperial family — from the House of Special Purpose where they were held.

The diary also includes a sketch map drawn by Alley of the house and its surroundings.

It used to be believed that Britain had abandoned the tsar, his wife Alexandra — a granddaughter of Queen Victoria — and their children. But in recent years evidence has emerged that both King George V and the government of David Lloyd George were willing to rescue the family. No evidence has previously come to light, however, of the advanced stage that preparations had reached.

Alley’s diary was found accidentally by his descendants in a trunk of his papers and will be featured in Queen Victoria’s Grandchildren, a documentary to be shown on Channel 4 in December.

The diary shows that, after they had been sprung from custody, the tsar and his family were to be taken by train to Murmansk and then shipped to safety by the Royal Navy.

On May 24, 1918, Alley, who was employed by MI1 (c), part of what became MI6, wrote to the War Office in London naming the six Russian- speaking officers he wanted to carry out the rescue. He asked London for a grant of £1,000 a month (about £25,000 today) due to “increased requirements for intelligence purposes”.

Andrew Cook, the historian who has examined the papers for the documentary, believes Alley’s telegrams to London may have been intercepted, leading the Bolsheviks to reinforce defences around the tsar’s prison. “At the first hint of a rescue the whole family would have been shot,” he said.

Alley’s apparent reluctance to activate the plot led to his sacking and recall to Britain. He worked for MI5 in the second world war and died in 1969 at the age of 93.

He always kept his work secret, even from Beatrice, his wife. Anthony Summers, author of The File on the Tsar, said: “She told me that when she asked her husband what he did, he would say, ‘Sometimes I will go away for a night and sometimes for a year, and I won’t be able to tell you where I am, but I’m working for the king.’ She thought he was going for dirty weekends.”<<

The Plan may have been put into action!
My Great Grandfather Walter Downing (adopted British name) Was one of the party put together to rescue the Tsar and Family in 1918. He originated from Odesa in the Ukraine escaping the pogroms of 1905 settling in Great Britain.
It is a well told story within our family. According to him the party did make it to Yekaterinburg but a Day to late, according to him their party witnessed the un-buried bodies and Identified all the Romanov Family remains, hence he always poo pooed the stories of Anastasia Nikolaevna's survival.