Romanov Pretenders and Imposters

[Prince of Poland]

Ceclava Czapska - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre
La zarina y sus cuatro hijas sobrevivieron a la matanza de la familia imperial rusa · ELPAÍS.com
Alexis Brimeyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have we got some photos of them ???

Estudios monárquicos: Alexis de Anjou - Papeles para la Acción Monárquica

I find two photos of Alexis and his mother Beatrice.

[chaz]

The false Dimitri, was a person the Poles contrived to usurp the throne of Muscovy. The genuine Dimitry was the son of Ivan Groszny, Ivan himself slew his first son, over Ivans disapproval of Dimitrys choice for his bride, it seems rather strange, that none of the Boyars knew of the murder. After the genuine Dmitris death, and Ivans as well, Ivans second son Feodor took the throne, and died thereafter. Now comes first false Dmitri at any rate this Polish agent secured the Cap of Monomakh. But the fraud was discovered,and although first false Dimitry did take the Throne of Muscovy for a time. But after he brought his Polish wife to Moscow and his policies all seemed designed to benifit Poland, the thick headed Boyars finally began to suspect him. After this first false Dmitri was eliminated, a Boyar, Boris Godunov took the throne. The second false Dmitry came and was assassinated. Then came Prince Basil Shuiski who was captured along with his brothers and imprisoned in Warsaw. This all paved the way for Muscovys second royal dynasty, the Romanovs,the first being the Rurivichi. This is an ammendation of the facts in my first post. I checked a source,(Oscar Halecki A HISTORY OF POLAND) and found the story much more convoluted than I had remembered. Chaz

[Velasco]

Has anyone got photos of people who claimed to be a surviving Romanov Grand Duchess, or their children? (Apart from Anna Anderson).

Most of the claimants seem completely crazy/ridicoulous, but some of them are somewhat convincing with their stories.

Eugenia Smith (who passed a lie detector test to see if she truly was Grand Duchess Anastasia), Eleonora Albertova Krüger, Natalya Petrovna Bilikhodze, Nadezhda Ivanovna Vasilyeva, and Anatoly Ionov who claims to be the son of Anastasia. Would be great to see photos of them and be able to compare with official Romanov ones...who knows what we might discover?

[Anna was Franziska]

Ipatiev House - Romanov Memorial - The Pretenders

Here's some pretenders for you! We have a special section for pretenders, maybe the mods can move your post and mine there to create a new thread called 'other pretenders' (not AA)

[Royal Fan]

was their any Real evidence against Peter the Greats Son or was it just to get an unwanted Heir out of the way????

[Anna was Franziska]

I was just watching this on "Land of the Tsars" last night, and I got the impression that it was Peter's paranoia that made him send spies to get his son in Vienna and bring him home to be tortured. It was clear that the two would never get along, so why couldn't he just let his son go? It must have been he believed he was plotting against him, which contradicted his own view of the boy as weak and unambitious! I don't think Alexei had any aspirations of taking his father's throne by force. It was all a tragic mistake.

The saddest irony is that he was so worried about what would happen to his empire after his death that he attacked his own son as unworthy, but could whatever Alexei did be worse than the mess that occured for years after Peter was gone?

Of course Peter didn't plan for it to end that way. At the time he tortured Alexei (there is debate as to whether or not he meant for him to die) Peter had a new baby son by his wife Catherine, but sadly in a very short period of time, Peter's new son, and Peter himself died. Perhaps this was his 'bad Karma' for what he did to Alexei. Anyway it remains yet another tragedy in Russia's history.

[Royal Fan]

It is very sad wonder what kind of Tsar he wouldve made would his Rule have hastened the end or held it off Peter The Great by Robert Massie Presents an Interesting picture as well was Eudoxia really that manipulative?

[Anna was Franziska]

Eudoxia did influence her son against his father, she felt he had treated her badly- having her declared a nun and put away so he could marry someone else. It was hard for Alexei to think of his father as a nice guy after having been mostly raised by a mother who always talked him down. After she was 'put away' she couldn't influence anyone , but maybe the damage was done in Alexei.

Alexei could tell he would never please his father and at one time had even offered to give up his position of Tsarevich in favor of his father's new baby, but Peter refused. As far as the charges, they allegedly beat some confessions out of him, tortured his friends to death, and coerced his mistress into saying he had declared he wished his father dead and would return the nation to the old ways after he was gone. Whether or not any of this was actually true or a set up is anyone's guess. Sounds like a setup to me. As much as I want to like Peter the Great, this episode bothers me and gives me a negative view of him as a person, though he was a great ruler.

[Al_bina]

As pointed out by Tolstoy Alexey in "Peter the Great", Eudoxia Lopuhina was extremely orthodox in terms of traditions, norms, and values. While Peter I was busy dragging Russia to the progress and opening a window to Europe, his wife did not bother helping him much. This factor contributed to a widening gap between them.
Eudoxia showed some thirst for power after the birth of Alexei Petrovich. Boyars felt threatened by a new elite: (1) commoners or rich merchants, who were promoted by Peter I and bestowed titles upon, and foreigners, who were invitited by Peter I to implement innovations. As implied by Tolstoy, some deeply conservative boyars saw Eudoxia Lopuhina and her son as saviours from this threat. If a plot were succesful, she was promised to be a regent. She pestered Peter I with never-ending complaints. Peter I disliked her for this very much.
Allegedly Count Tolstoy (Pyotr Andreyevich Tolstoy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) got incriminating evidence against Alexei Petrovich from Jesuits known for selling the most accurate information at that time.However, it might be presumed that Count Tolstoy followed the Tzar's orders, that is actively searching for any evidence against disgraced Tsarevitch.

[Toscany]

http://s689.photobucket.com/albums/v...1.jpg&newest=1

I have been working on ancestral research for three months, with a young man who I believe is a claimant. I was reading from The Romanoff Family Association, the welcome information page, and found this paragraph to be interesting:

"After the end of the war, the Romanoff Diaspora was accentuated. We have now members of our family living in Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Great Britain, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, the United States and Uruguay."

The young man I am working with is from Montevideo, Uruguay. I have included a photo of his parents.

If I can obtain a scan of documentation along with a birth certificate, I believe this young man is a legal grandson of Grand Duke Mikhail Aleksandrovich Romanov. I know that many (if not most) people will ridicule this claim, however, the intrigue and espionage, of this period, has me leaning toward all that this young man has shared. If this become factual evidence, would he not be closer in line than any of the family's mentioned above?

HMB

[branchg]

Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich married morganatically in 1911 to Natalie Sergeyevna Sheremetyevskaya, a twice-divorced Russian noble, without permission from his brother, Nicholas II. Natalie had already given birth to a son, George, out-of-wedlock in 1910. For this action, Michael was banished from Russia and removed from the imperial succession by his brother.

Eventually, Nicholas forgave his brother and legitimized the marriage by granting Natalie the style of Countess Brassova. But their son, George, Count Brassov, was morganatic and not a dynast. Natalie and Count Brassov escaped Russia and George Brassov subsequently died in a car crash in 1931 in France at the age of 20. He never married or had any children.

So, this so-called "grandson" would not be a dynast under any circumstances.

[Russophile]

branchg, didn't the Duke of Leuctenberg first grant Natalie that title then Nicholas confirmed it?

[Toscany]

Originally Posted by branchg

Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich married morganatically in 1911 to Natalie Sergeyevna Sheremetyevskaya, a twice-divorced Russian noble, without permission from his brother, Nicholas II. Natalie had already given birth to a son, George, out-of-wedlock in 1910. For this action, Michael was banished from Russia and removed from the imperial succession by his brother.

Eventually, Nicholas forgave his brother and legitimized the marriage by granting Natalie the style of Countess Brassova. But their son, George, Count Brassov, was morganatic and not a dynast. Natalie and Count Brassov escaped Russia and George Brassov subsequently died in a car crash in 1931 in France at the age of 20. He never married or had any children.

So, this so-called "grandson" would not be a dynast under any circumstances.

I certainly agree under the old laws, and very aware of this morganatic marriage. These are the claimant's grand parents! His father was born to the GD and Natalya on the 31 July 1916 (Saint Petersburg), long after the Tsar legitimized the marriage, and granted the formal style back to his brother. He was passed to a couple that the GD selected to bring the baby out of Russia, into the arms of his mother, Natalya. There is also documentation of the young man's father taking visits to his grand mother's, Maria Feodorovna, up until she died.

Both the Tsar, and his mother, The Dagmar, were present at this baby's baptismal in Saint Petersburg. The young claimant has record of this. He also has record of the certificate of birth, signed by the GD and Natalya. Getting the baby out of Russia was both a painful and expensive finanical endeavor for the GD, to avoid being uncovered by the Bolcheviks (October 1917), after being placed under house arrest. We know the rest of this story, for the GD was murdered in February 1918 (Perm), three months before the Imperial family (who were also under house arrest).

In comparison to 'other' claims, if this claim becomes fact, would he not be closest in line to the family of Tsar Nicholas II? We make the act of divorce sound so terrible, when actually, it was a common action amongst Prince's and Princess's in the lines of succession. The Tsar reserved the right to 'change' or wave morganatic law, as he saw fit. He wished for his brother, GD Mikhail, to be by his side during WWI. Thus, this 'second' child, born in 1916, would technically still be named a Prince. The GD Mikhail, actually reigned as Tsar for one day, after the title was passed to him from his brother, Tsar Nicholas II. The GD stepped aside, without resignation, for the "people" to decide whether the monarchy would be restored.

I have spent over three months communicating with this young gentleman in Uruguay. He is a graduate of The University of Glasgow, Scotland, where his mother's family (Stewart) were raised , and lived. She is the daughter of Manfred Wilhelm Hohenzollern (b 22 May 1915 - d 12 April 1996), and Katherine Stewart (b 15 September 1919 - d 4 July 2004), Edinburgh, Scotland UK. This young man is 27 years old.

I have collected all of our communication, which is translated from Spanish to English, written in his own hand. I am happy to share this with those that have an open mind. The level of intrigue and espionage during this period, raises many questions to the validity morganatic law, when there is no monarchy around to upold it. So, In reference to your last statement, this young man would (or could) be a dynast under all circumstance.

If anyone is interested, please let me know.

HMB

[Al_bina]

Well ... it definitely is an intriguing story. Officially speaking, Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovich's bloodline ceased to exist with the death of George, Count Brassov. If whatever you have stated is true, I hope the young gentleman in question have got solid indisputable evidence of belonging to the Romanovs. At the same time, I do not think that the remaining Romanovs will ever accept him as a part of the family.

[Toscany]

Originally Posted by Al_bina

Well ... it definitely is an intriguing story. Officially speaking, Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovich's bloodline ceased to exist with the death of George, Count Brassov. If whatever you have stated is true, I hope the young gentleman in question have got solid indisputable evidence of belonging to the Romanovs. At the same time, I do not think that the remaining Romanovs will ever accept him as a part of the family.

I am hoping to not only produce a positive Y 37-45 DNA test, but also the birth certificate of his father, signed by the GD and Natalya's hand.

I have never been involved in such an intriguing story. This young man is well educated (The University of Glasgow, Scotland UK), was born in Edinburgh, and also speaks German. His mother (born 1945) is the daughter of Manfred Wilhelm Hohenzollern and Katherine Stewart, also born in Edinburgh, Scotland UK.

When there is hopefully, proof positive, then we shall see what the Romanov's think. Mean while, I am retired, and I plan to help him through this time. Believe me, no one would create a story for the 21st century, such as what I have heard. I have over 100 communications from him, regarding questions I needed answered. I have had to translate them into English from Spanish. His mother is still living, so this helps move this delicate project forward.

HMB

[Toscany]

Below, I have attached one communication that answers questions that I needed to begin his family tree.

It is written in his native language (Spanish). I have translated it as best as possible, to English:

Mr. Harry Binkow: "Decir de mi abuela Natalya, ella vivio exiliada en Paris en el año 1952, puede decir que ella fue la esposa del Zar ya Mikhail fue Zar de Rusia por un dia, del dia 15 a 16 de Marzo del año 1917 con 38 años de edad. Mi abuela fallecio de Cáncer en un hospital, en la miseria..... ya que mi padre ya no podia hacer nada por ella. Ya que le imploro que se fuera lejos.. se del accidente de George en el año 1931."

Translation:
Mr. Harry Binkow: Saying of my grandmother Natalya, she lived exiled in Paris in the year 1952, can say that she was the wife of the Czar already Mikhail was Czar of Russia , as given on 15 to 16 of March of the year 1917 with 38 years of age. My grandmother died of Cancer in a hospital, in misery. .... since my father no longer being able to do nothing by her. Since I implore him that was itself far away.. itself of the accident of George in the year 1931.

This is just one simple communication. I have many that are detailed with family questions. Here is one more:

Es un placer que usted haya estudiado a mi familia, le escribo en español ya que es la lengua que más gusta a mi persona, usted a estudiado la historia de nuestra familia de comienzo de la esposa de Ivan Ivanovich conocido como el Zar Ivan el terrible o desde 1612 el tiempo en que los Rusos expulsaron a la Liga Polaco-Lituana, y que en ese entonces se nombro Zar despues de tanto revueltas a mi antepasado Mikhail I Romanov,
ya que mi padre estaria antes que ella, pero mi padre al fallecer el 9 de julio de 1993 a la edad de 76 años yo seria el unico que pudiera reclamar la corona de Rusia, pero mi padre oculto toda su vida su identidad ya que su vida corrio peligro en muchas ocaciones, una pista la madre de mi padre fallecio de cancer en francia y mi tio fallecio en accidente de transito dudoso de ser un atentado, mi abuelo lo oculto a mi padre por que ya sabia de los planes de los Bolcheviques cuando nacio mi padre, lo que es mas solo la Iglesia Ortodoxa tiene constancia del nacimiento de mi padre pero lo a ocultado ya que es un secreto dado a mis abuelos.

Translation:
It is a pleasure that you've studied my family, I am writing in Spanish because the language is more like me, you studied the history of our family from the beginning of the wife of Ivan Ivanovich known as the Tsar Ivan the terrible or time since 1612 that the Russians expelled the Polish-Lithuanian League, and then called Czar riots after both my ancestor Mikhail I Romanov,
because my father would be before her, but my father died on 9 July 1993 at the age of 76 I would be the only one who could claim the crown of Russia, but my father all his life hiding his identity as his life was in danger on many occasions, a track my father's mother died of cancer in France and my uncle died in traffic accident doubtful if an attack, hidden from my grandfather that my father already knew about the plans of the Bolsheviks When my father, which is but only the Orthodox Church is aware of the birth of my father but to what is hidden as a secret because my grandparents.

Best regards,

HMB

[Patra]

This is a very interesting thread- I have ejoyed reading it very much. Please keep us updated.

[Toscany]

Here is one other...I believe that one can determine his anxiety, along with his father. After all, the claimant was born in 1982 (Edinburgh, Scotland), and his father died 16 years ago (1993). Aside from documents, and intimate conversation, it certainly did not give the two of them much time for history lessons. At least, his father told him who he is...

September 16 at 2:22pm
Con respecto a esta pregunta... ¿Por qué, específicamente lo que sus padres ocultar su nacimiento? ¿Fue porque sabían que pueden ser encarcelados o asesinados? ¿Cómo va a explicar su heridity? Mikhail sabia de las intenciones de los Bolchevique de asesinar a la familia Imperial Romanov, hasta el Zar Nikolai cuando su hermano le comento lo que habia averiguado Nikolai le dijo que era imposible que era tan imposible como querer transportar los Urales a cualquier parte del mundo el que los Bolcheviques que tuvieran exito en tal cosa. Pero el miedo de mi abuelo de proteger a su esposa su hijo George y el bebe que venia en camino, le dijo a su hermano que el respetaba su desicion de no creerle pero que el se iba a asegurar de proteger a su familia a costa de su propia vida y que habia desidido cuando naciera su segundo hijo fuera niño o niña, de no darlo a conocer al medio publico por la seguridad de la vida del bebe, ya que seria más facil de proteger no sabiendose de su existencia.... Y aunque tuviera que gotear su ultima gota de sangre por proteger a su pequeño George y a su amada Natalya, y a su segundo fruto de su matrimonio, mi padre.


Con respecto a mi madre ella es una Von Hohenzollern por padre y como le dije por parte de su madre es una Stewart...

Saludos Cordiales,

Translation:

Re: Romanov Family

With regard to this question ... Why, specifically what their parents conceal his birth? Was it because they knew they could be jailed or killed? How will you explain your heridity? Mikhail knew about the intentions of the Bolsheviks to kill the Imperial Romanov family, to the Tsar Nikolai when his brother told him what he had learned Nikolai said it was impossible it was as impossible as trying to carry the Urals to anywhere in the world that the Bolsheviks were successful in that. But the fear of my grandfather to protect his wife and baby son George who was on the way, he told his brother that he respected his decision to not believe him but that he would ensure to protect your family at the expense of his own life and that he had desidido when his second son was born child, not made known to the public means for the safety of your baby's life, and it would be easier to protect not knowing of their existence .... And if he had to dribble his last drop of blood to protect her little George and his beloved Natalya, and his second fruit of their marriage, my father.


With respect to my mother she is a von Hohenzollern by father, and told by her mother is a Stewart ...

HMB

[Russophile]

So Toscany, when's the DNA test scheduled? Inquiring minds wanna know. . .

[Toscany]

I have forward to him information about www.familytreedna.com this morning. It may also be necessary to locate other tests that have been performed on other male Romanovs.

I believe I have impressed apon him, the need for such a test.

I have somehow learned to be patient about many things, after reaching the age of 50...Now, 5 years later, the ability to have patience is once again in question! I am happy to share results as soon as I know them.

Thank you for your interest.