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  #81  
Old 09-11-2015, 01:44 PM
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The DNA test was carried by the Russian and foreign laboratories and confirmed the identity of the remains. The ROC believes that the prove is not sufficient to meet its standards.
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  #82  
Old 09-11-2015, 01:55 PM
eya eya is offline
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After the examination was done by Russians with foreign i do not think that there is somewhere feasibility. What are these standards that prevent the Russian Orthodox Church to accept?

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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
DNA confirms bodies are Tsar Nicholas II & Alexandra

DNA confirms bodies are Tsar Nicholas II & Alexandra - The Crown Chronicles
I hope everyone in the end to be satisfied and finally this unfortunate family to rest in peace.
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  #83  
Old 09-11-2015, 04:20 PM
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A spokesman for Prime Minister Medvedev has announced that the reburial of Alexei and Maria, which had just been set for 18 October, will now be delayed.

This postponement will allow for further testing of the remains to confirm their authenticity, per the demands of the Russian Orthodox Church.

Russia agrees to further testing over 'remains of Romanov children' | World news | The Guardian
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  #84  
Old 09-11-2015, 05:05 PM
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I wonder how long that will take?
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  #85  
Old 09-17-2015, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
I wonder how long that will take?
Indeed!Total waste of time,thanks to the ROC...Really,they are heartless,ruthless and did I say backward?It's a charade to keep these children from their final resting place next to their parents and siblings.But ok...a few months more won't change their gruesome fate,but just goes to show what incredibly daft as a brush lot is dealing with this all.Incredible,just incredible.
Poor poor children.
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  #86  
Old 09-23-2015, 04:08 PM
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Russia to exhume remains of Tsar Nicholas II for testing in bid to prove if they are genuine

Russia to exhume remains of Tsar Nicholas II for testing in bid to prove if they are genuine - Mirror Online
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  #87  
Old 09-23-2015, 05:18 PM
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Is there no end to the insults and indignities heaped upon this family.. not least by a Church that claims to venerate them ?
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  #88  
Old 09-23-2015, 05:51 PM
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The remains of the last Russian emperor and his wife have been exhumed, while the Interior Ministry's Investigative Committee has reopened an investigation into the early 20th century murder of the Romanov family.
Investigative Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin announced the renewal of the case due to new evidence in an official statement online.
The investigators will have to study archival materials related to the enquiry conducted between 1918 and 1924 by former Russian Imperial officers. These documents were found sometime after 2011 along with some new material evidence.
https://www.rt.com/news/316333-roman...case-reopened/
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  #89  
Old 09-23-2015, 08:04 PM
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It seem pathetic. Who cares. Let them rest in peace. It is not like they may find them somewhere living.
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  #90  
Old 09-23-2015, 09:40 PM
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The Russian Orthodox Church and Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna welcomed this development.
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  #91  
Old 09-23-2015, 09:42 PM
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What purpose would that serve?
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  #92  
Old 09-23-2015, 10:20 PM
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In short ... The ROC has been maintaining that the authorities failed to definitely prove the identity of the remains. Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, in her turn, has been supporting the view of the ROC on the matter.
It is impossible to tell why the Russian authorities decided to give in and re-open the case. The official reason is that new evidence has surfaced and new tests will be carried.
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  #93  
Old 09-24-2015, 06:53 AM
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BBC News

Russia exhumes bones of murdered Tsar Nicholas and wife

Russia exhumes bones of murdered Tsar Nicholas and wife - BBC News
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  #94  
Old 09-24-2015, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
BBC News

Russia exhumes bones of murdered Tsar Nicholas and wife

Russia exhumes bones of murdered Tsar Nicholas and wife - BBC News
Words fail me,really.What a shame they're not at peace almost a hundred years after they were butchered.
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  #95  
Old 09-24-2015, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post

In short ... The ROC has been maintaining that the authorities failed to definitely prove the identity of the remains. Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, in her turn, has been supporting the view of the ROC on the matter.
It is impossible to tell why the Russian authorities decided to give in and re-open the case. The official reason is that new evidence has surfaced and new tests will be carried.
Yeah... I'm still not getting the purpose of this.

To me, the ROC's refusal to accept the conclusions of the study/studies that have been done is rather silly. I get that the testing was done by Western scientists but it seems to me that the whole denial is basically them going "well, of course Western scientists wouldn't tell us the truth/actually know the truth."

Ultimately though, the idea that a church is insisting on the exhumation of human remains so that scientists can take samples from them, then take samples from other remains, then process these samples (and in doing so destroy them) in order to determine if all the remains are related is absurd. I get the scientists wanting to do it because of the great search for knowledge and all that, but the church... the church is supposed to protect people after they've passed. I can't see how this does that.

That's what kind of disgusts me about this. Not the fact that Russian scientists want to do it, or that Russian authorities are consenting to it. I would expect the same of any scientists in any nation, and I think most authorities given enough pressure and not enough resistance to an idea will consent after a time. But that the ROC is the driving force behind it is another matter. It goes against what a church should be doing to me.
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  #96  
Old 09-24-2015, 09:23 AM
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The reality is that the ROC is an organ of the Russian State.. it was under Tsarism, was under Communism and is now under what ever 'ism' one chooses to classify the current regime.

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It goes against what a church should be doing to me.
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  #97  
Old 09-24-2015, 05:41 PM
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The Heads of the ROC in Russia sound like a bunch of bullheaded individuals. If they didn't recognize the rest of the Tsar and his family, why are they buried in a Russian Church?
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  #98  
Old 09-24-2015, 07:52 PM
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Fairly speaking, the ROC expressed its doubts from the very beginning. It has not changed its stance on the matter. That is all.
Quote:
Jul. 10 1998 00:00

ST. PETERSBURG -- With a week left before the burial of Russia's last tsar and his family, the already scandal-tainted ceremony suffered a further blow to its credibility this week when a leading branch of the Romanov family said it would be staying away.

Grand Duchess Leonida Georgiyevna, grandmother of 16-year-old Prince Georgy, one of the leading pretenders to the Romanov throne, said her family would not be attending because they were unhappy with the organization of the funeral.

Patriarch Alexy II, head of the Russian Orthodox Church, said earlier this year that doubts about the authenticity of the remains, to be buried in St. Petersburg July 17, meant he could not take part. President Boris Yeltsin signaled soon after that he will not attend.
Romanovs Stay Away From Tsar's Burial | News | The Moscow Times
Quote:
The Russian Orthodox Church and the House of Romanov still dispute the authenticity of the remains of the royal family discovered near Ekaterinburg and buried in St. Peter and Paul's Fortress.

The Russian Investigative Committee does not doubt the authenticity of the remains of Tsar Nicholas II and his family, and additional examinations will be conducted following a request from the Russian Orthodox Church, committee spokesman Vladimir Markin has said.

"The recent resumption of the criminal inquiry is not an attempt to revise the earlier received evidence and the established facts. Rather, it is an exclusive need to additionally examine the newly uncovered facts, which has been requested by the Russian Orthodox Church," he said.
ROYAL RUSSIA: News, Videos & Photographs About the Romanov Dynasty, Monarchy and Imperial Russia - Updated Daily
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  #99  
Old 09-24-2015, 08:25 PM
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I wonder whether the Russian Orthodox Church may be requiring further authentication because of the family's canonisation as Martyrs or Passion-Bearers: would that have a bearing on the importance of the location of their interment being correctly ascertained?
May they rest in peace.
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  #100  
Old 09-25-2015, 12:46 AM
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Yes this is about canonization and relics and how they need absolute verification. They believe these are the remains and canonized them anyway but had doubts and have waited for more verification before burying Alexei and Maria. There are discrepancies between the location and state of the bodies vs the Sokolov group investigation, the 1918 White Guards Investigation and other documentation - i.e. bodies were expected to be dissected and destroyed all together with sulphuric acid yet these bodies weren't. They also now have DNA from the remains of the Tsarina's sister Grand Duchess Elizabeth Fyodorovna and Tsar Alexander II. So once this is all authenticated they can do a burial ceremony for Alexei and Maria. In 2018 on the 100th anniversary the church will again remember them and they want there to be no doubt of the authenticity of the relics by then.

Russia exhumes bones of murdered Tsar Nicholas and wife - BBC News
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