Reburial of the remains of Alexei and Maria

[BeatrixFan]

The Imperial House can't just rock up to the Fortress with a couple of coffins. I assume (based on the reburial of Marie Feodorovna) that foreign royals and representatives would be invited, there's the practical side of things (road closures, security etc) and above all else, it's a cultural event which makes it very much a government matter.

[Vasillisos Markos]

BeatrixFan is right -- there is more to this than just accommodating a family's wishes.

[AristoCat]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

The Imperial House can't just rock up to the Fortress with a couple of coffins. I assume (based on the reburial of Marie Feodorovna) that foreign royals and representatives would be invited, there's the practical side of things (road closures, security etc) and above all else, it's a cultural event which makes it very much a government matter.

Quite right; in all honesty I don't see how on earth this owuld be done, but without it being a few years ahead of time.

[alexxiic]

Alexei Nikolaevich Romanov did not die in Russia in 1918.
He survived and died in Australia in 1971.
He led a life not very unsimilar to his auntie Olga who passed away in Canada in 1960. Both simply wanted to live in peace on a farm far away from "Babylon".

If , at last, the world is interested and ready to listen...I can write more.
In 1918, he was found, very badly wounded, by my great-grandfather Alexei Orlov. With one leg in the grave, he survived and lived firstly in Latvia and then in Germany.
I am named after my grandfather...and also share his desire for peace and quiet...but...the burial and proposed reburial of "Alexei Nikolaevich" ...was simply too much...
God bless Russia

[Alexey 1904]

Sure, alexxiic, I'm ready to listen to/read another one of those 'miraculous' escape stories' of Anastasia or Alexis Romanov which seem to be appearing more and more lately. Was your great-grandfather 'The Kitchen Boy'?

AristoCat: I agree wholeheartedly with your post #40. The Russian gov't members do indeed have more on their minds than this topic. It is not just the gov't, either. Private citizens also say that 'it is just not important' to them. The remains will stay in the refrigerator for who knows how long, and that is not right they can't be put with their family, but apparently, such is the way it is with the Russian Church and the gov't.

[alexxiic]

Dear Alexey1904, My great grandfather was Prince Alexei Orlov. He saved a very badly wounded boy in 1918. The wounded boy was named Alexei and was born in 1904.His family was also killed in 1918. My grandmother Maria was the youngest daughter of Alexei Orlov. I also have a sister Maria.
My family is only just one example of those who lost their country, belongings, and identity . The most important thing that nobody could take away from us was our faith , Eastern Orthodox and love for our country.

[NGalitzine]

For all of the imposters that claimed to be rescued members of the Imperial Family it is a wonder that the Revolution succeeded at all. The Soviets must have been very bad shots given the number of people who claimed to have survived the basement shootings in the Ipatiev house. And poor Alexis who could be brought to deaths door merely by bumping his leg must have been truly miraculous to have survived both a storm of bullets and then the bayonet.
It is bizarre that nearly 100 years after the revolution these stories still come to light, long after the 20's & 30s when they were quite common.

[Alexey 1904]

Dear alexxiic: Fine. There's nothing wrong with having only your faith and love of your country to sustain a family when they have lost their identities,belongings and said country. But just because your great grandfather found a boy who said his name was Alexei and that he was born in the year 1904 does not make him the Tsarevich. It was good that your grandfather found him and he was .able to lead a life away from war in Australia. I have nothing else to say on the topic.

[alexxiic]

Like it or not, YES IT IS A VERY BIZARRE WORLD. Who thought that the bolsheviks would seize power? ...and when they actually did seize power ...now that was truly bazarre. Many Russian families were indeed "fortunate" to have escaped the Revolution of 1917 and ensuing Civil War 1918- ...Once abroad, in safety, many thought themselves safe whilst others were indeed traumatised especially those who had lost their entire family.Of course, these people changed their identities, and kept silent until their death. Whilst living in Germany, my family were in touch with certain Russian emigre families such as Galitzin , Naryshkin. Some moved on to the USA and Canada.My great grandfather Alexei Orlov- chose to remain near his SPb home... in Riga, Latvia. He was a very careful man, but notwithstanding this, he was nevertheless arrested when Latvia was occupied in 1940. He chose to stay.

[kell]

i gotta do it
AND THE BEAT GOES ON

[Daria_S]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

For all of the imposters that claimed to be rescued members of the Imperial Family it is a wonder that the Revolution succeeded at all. The Soviets must have been very bad shots given the number of people who claimed to have survived the basement shootings in the Ipatiev house. And poor Alexis who could be brought to deaths door merely by bumping his leg must have been truly miraculous to have survived both a storm of bullets and then the bayonet.
It is bizarre that nearly 100 years after the revolution these stories still come to light, long after the 20's & 30s when they were quite common.

Indeed. The idea of anyone surviving that blood bath was always preposterous to me. No one, outside of a superhuman could have walked (or crawled) out of that basement. The Soviets may have been bad shots, but they certainly made sure that every single person that was supposed to be dead, was (and even if bayonets and bullets didn't completely kill, then being burned in the pit certainly completed the job). Whenever anyone would start talking about a 'survival story' they have seen on the History or the Biography Channel, I would roll my eyes and not even bother, since people will always believe exactly what they want, and swaying them has absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

[Stefanie]

When they had to make DNA-Tests to find out who is who was it accidentely figured out (or able to figure out) which of the four daughters had the Haemophila gen?

[stevek06]

Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence

But, the funeral will be very expensive.
In my opinion, I think it would be best to bury the remains of the children as soon as possible because the children deserve to have a proper burial along with the rest of the family. It's been over 90 years and it's time for them to give the children the resting place they've been waiting for 90 years. The economic crisis might take over four years to end, so that will still be a long time later.

The remains of the final two Romanov children should happen NOW. They were murdered in the most inexcusable way. Their bodies were treated with no respect. They were dumped !!

The economic crisis is irrelevant. They must have a Christian burial with the rest of their family. Anyone who fails to do this, when they can, is no better than Yurovski.

Bury them NOW !!!!

[stevek06]

I have a special interest. My own daughter died on 17th July, the anniversary of this disgraceful event

[stevek06]

Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence

This is very sad news. I was hoping that the remains of Alexei and Maria were going to be burried soon. But, after the economic crisis ends, the bones will be burried. The Russian Gov't is more concerned about handling the economic crisis.

I agree with Dr. William Maples. The remaining unburied daughter is NOT Marie. Her name is Marie, not Mariya ! When teh mass grave was uncovered the bodies were examined. Tatiana and Olga were easily identified but ther was disagreement over the identity of the third daughter who had been discovered. The Russians believed it was Anastasiya but Dr. Maples believes it is Marie. Olga was 5'3" tall, Tatiana was 5'4" tall but Marie, at 19 was taller. She was nearly 5'6" tall and this skeleton was clearly taller. Anastasiya was only 5'2" tall

But the sad and inexcusable fact is that she and Alexei remained unburied. They belong with their family and they must have a decent Christian burial NOW.

This was a terrible crime and the crime shall continue until the final two children are buried.

[stevek06]

Originally Posted by Stefanie

When they had to make DNA-Tests to find out who is who was it accidentely figured out (or able to figure out) which of the four daughters had the Haemophila gen?

Unfortunately DNA has limitations and it is not possible to discover whether the daughters were carrying haemophilia. But it is passed on by the mother to the son and there is no reason to believe that any of the girls were carrying it. It originated from Queen Victoria's family but she was clear. So the four girls probably did not have it !!

[TomBert]

The gene can also pass also from mother to daughter, so there is every reason to believe that one or more of the girls were carriers. I think the probability for a carrier's daughter also being a carrier is 50%.

[stevek06]

Originally Posted by TomBert

The gene can also pass also from mother to daughter, so there is every reason to believe that one or more of the girls were carriers. I think the probability for a carrier's daughter also being a carrier is 50%.

I think that you are probably right. 50% is the probable likelihood. Haemophilia was in the genes of the family of Queen Victoria. This is the origin of Alexei's affliction. But Queen Victoria was NOT a carrier. It is possible that the Romanova girls could have been carriers but it is just as reasonable to assume that they were clear.

What are your views on the remaining two bodies ?

I believe that it is VERY wrong to abandon them. They should be buried decently, with the rest of their family, regardless of the cost and inconvenience. I am also convinced that the girl is Anastasiya and NOT Marie, as is being claimed. In the picture of the mass grave, body 5 clearly has long legs. Marie was taller than her sisters and I agree with Dr. Maples. This is the body of Marie. There is no short girl in the mass grave so it is clear to me that Anastasiya was certainly missing.

Interested in your opinions !

Steve

[LauraS3514]

Originally Posted by TomBert

The gene can also pass also from mother to daughter, so there is every reason to believe that one or more of the girls were carriers. I think the probability for a carrier's daughter also being a carrier is 50%.

"Traditional" hemophilia is genetically recessive - i.e. if you have one "good" gene you aren't affected. A woman carrier has a 50/50 chance of having an affected son, and each of her daughters has a 50/50 chance of also being a carrier. It's possible for the bad gene to pass "silently" for several generations - especially if only daughters are born. However, since the gene is carried on the X-chromosome and men have only one X, if they get their mother's "bad" gene, then they get hemophilia- and ALL their daughters are carriers. It is theoretically possible for there to be a female hemophiliac: if an affected father has a daughter with a carrier mother; this is very rare. Before modern medicine and artificial clotting factors such girls usually died at puberty.

[stevek06]

Thanks for the information. But whether Olga, Tatiana, Marie or Anastasiya were carriers of Haemophilia seems rather irrelevant now. We will never know and it really does not matter.
This vicious murder should never have happened and it could have been avoided and now the remaining two children must be laid to rest with the rest of the family. There is no question of this. It does not need to be a full state funeral. A private Romanov funeral would suffice.

As far as blame is concerned I know that the Russians blame King George V but I believe that teh Germans must accept a great part of the responsibility. In 1918 the Bolsheviks wee force to enter the Brest Litovsk Treaty with Germany to end the hostilities of the First World War. The Germans appear to have been more interested in taking control of Ukraine. But they should have insisted that Tsar Nicholas II be surrendered to them as a prisoner of war. Alexandra was a German so she should have been released into the custody of the Germans. If this had happened the lives of the daughters would have been spared. Alexei would have gone with his mother because of his health problems. It would have been a much better way to deal with the Romanovs.

I believe that the Germans should accept very much of the blame and it would be quite fitting if the present German Government contributed to the cost of the funeral of Alexei and Anastasiya ( or Marie depending on what you believe )