Reburial of Empress Marie Feodorovna: 23-28 September 2006 - Page 10

Warren · #**181** 09-29-2006, 06:56 AM

A reminder that this thread is devoted to the reburial of the Empress Marie Feodorovna.
It is not the place to peddle pregnancy speculation, or Colin Firth.

thanks,
Warren
Non-Reigning Houses moderator

ZZZ · #**182** 09-29-2006, 07:22 AM

from polfoto

Sean.~ · #**183** 09-29-2006, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophus

Nicholas I and his wife Alexandra of Prussia had among 4 sons Alexander II and Nicholas. Alexander II is grandfather to Nicholas II and Xenia, while Nicholas is grandfather to Nicholas and Dimitri. Nicholas and Dimitri's mother was a princess of Montenegro; she was daughter of King Nicholas I of Montenegro.

So no - they are not descendants of Xenia.

Nicholas and Dimitri's *Grandmother* (not mother) was Princess Militza of Montenegro. Her sister, Anastasia, was married to her husband's older brother. So they were two sisters who married two brothers.

Together, these two sisters were known as the "Black Plague" for their dark colouring and their interest in the Occult. They are notorious for introducing rather questionable individuals to the Russian court, including Rasputin. They were the only two who would Kowtow to Alexandra Feodorovna, and thus were popular with her (although they lost favour later).

They were married to the most junior of Grand Dukes. Militza was the wife of a younger son of a younger so of an Emperor. I guess she was kind of like the equivalent to Princess Michael of Kent.

Militza and Grand Duke Peter had a son, Prince Roman Petrovich. He married unequally. Nicholas and Dimitri are his sons (and they ,too, have married unequally).

Furthermore, there was no such title as 'Prince X Romanov' during the Russian Empire. And thus Dimitri and his brother are not Princes Romanov. And they are most certainly not the head of the family or the Imperial House, as there are other, more senior lines. Moreover, they don't meet the qualifications stipulated in the house laws for headship. Here is a simple geneology:

Nicholas I > Alexander II >Alexander III> Nicholas II

Nicholas > Alexander II> Grand Duke Vladimir> Grand Duke Cyril> Grand Duke Vladimir> Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna

Nicholas I > Alexander II > Grand Duke Paul Alexandrovich > Grand Duke Dimitri Pavlovich> Prince Paul Illyinski >Prince Dimitri Ilyinski

Nicholas I> Grand Duke Nicholas Nichaelovich m. Alexandra Petrovna > Peter Nichaelovich > Prince Roman Petrovich> Nicholas and Dimitri Romanov

There are other more senior lines, too. But you get the point.

-

Sophus · #**184** 09-29-2006, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean.~

Nicholas and Dimitri's *Grandmother* (not mother) was Princess Militza of Montenegro. Her sister, Anastasia, was married to her husband's older brother. So they were two sisters who married two brothers.

Thank you... And - sorry that I mis-read my book about lines of succession... You're right about the grandmother of Nicholas and Dimitri...

Sean.~ · #**185** 09-29-2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophus

Thank you... And - sorry that I mis-read my book about lines of succession... You're right about the grandmother of Nicholas and Dimitri...

Oh, you're welcome!! It was my pleasure :-)

Actually, I was just bored and thought I would throw out some general information on the Nichaeolovich line. It wasn't meant to be a correction of your earlier post or anything, so there is no reason to be sorry. :-))

Sean ~

Vanesa · #**186** 09-29-2006, 08:44 PM

Did you notice that Crown Prince Frederick is very close in facial features to Empress Maria Feodorovna?

Vanesa.

Toledo · #**187** 09-29-2006, 11:30 PM

Royal Treatment for Late Empress
Sept. 29, 2006, 2:00AM
Empress reunites with family in death

Some quotes from the above article, I find the second quote interesting because it was similar to the situation of Britain's Queen Mary. she was to be married to one British prince and ended up marrying his brother :

...Hundreds honor the exiled mother of Russia's last czar with reburial in St. Petersburg
Her remains arrived in Russia on Tuesday, exactly 140 years after she first came to the country. The remains were taken first to the czars' summer residence of Peterhof.

...The future empress was born in 1847 as Princess Marie Sophie Frederikke Dagmar. Baptized a Lutheran, she took the name Maria Fyodorovna when she converted to Russian Orthodoxy before marrying the future Alexander III, who reigned from 1881 to 1894. She had been engaged in 1864 to marry Alexander's older brother Nicholas, but he fell ill and died the next year. It was then arranged for her to marry Alexander. They wed in 1866.

...Russian President Vladimir Putin, who played an important role in encouraging the reburial, didn't attend Thursday's services, which were billed as cultural and religious rather than political.

Sean.~ · #**188** 09-30-2006, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanesa

Did you notice that Crown Prince Frederick is very close in facial features to Empress Maria Feodorovna?

Vanesa.

I never noticed it until you mentioned it. It's true. ;-)

Linda Hsu · #**189** 09-30-2006, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathilde1286

Wow. Thanks for all the wonderful photos!!!

Does anyone have any of these without watermarks?

Thanks.

Hi Mathilde1286

The Danish Royal Watchers web site has many beautiful photos without watermarks as below:

http://danishroyalwatchers.blogspot.com/

Mathilde1286 · #**190** 09-30-2006, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda Hsu

Hi Mathilde1286

The Danish Royal Watchers web site has many beautiful photos without watermarks as below:

http://danishroyalwatchers.blogspot.com/

As always, thank you, Linda Hsu, for your courteous responses!

Could someone translate this article? http://www.berlingske.dk/udland/artikel:aid=799142/

Toledo · #**191** 09-30-2006, 08:16 PM

More news links on the historic Reburial with some quotes taken from each article:

Russian reburial ends tragic chapter
(An interview transcript done by a reporter while the church ceremony was in progress, right above the headline are the audio links if you prefer to listen to the interview in real media or media player)
AM - Friday, 29 September , 2006 08:23:00
Reporter: Emma Griffiths
___EMMA GRIFFITHS: Yuri Dobrovolsky leads a group of about 150 nobles. But he says he has the backing of many ordinary Russians, too. Like 36-year-old Vladimir.
"That is what our country, our people need," he says. "They say this is the last royal burial. But I hope that it will happen again, that there will be another Russian monarch."
Many Russians believe that's the last thing they need. For them the reburial of the Empress is simply a political stunt. And even those who would rule in a new Russian monarchy, are hesitant to fight for it...

This other news link (below) is about the story behind this event. :dry: Regardless of the political intentions it implies I think this was a way to bring a part of a nation's history back to its people. Besides the fact that a family has been finally reunited:

Russia: Romanov Burial May Be Part Of Kremlin Image Campaign
Claire Bigg, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty

...The empress's coffin will lie in state at the Aleksandr Nevsky church in Peterhof until September 28, when her last wishes to be buried in St. Petersburg next to her husband will be fulfilled...

Russian royals bid farewell to last tsarina
Adrian Blomfield in St Petersburg
September 30, 2006

...But as the 69 members of the Romanov family filed past the tsarina's sarcophagus to throw soil over her coffin, some may have been thinking of the future of what was once one of the world's most powerful dynasties...
...A gathering like this will probably not happen again. The oldest Romanovs are in their 80s and representatives of the family said they were unlikely to return to Russia. A younger generation will have to carve out a new role for the Romanovs....

Russia buries a tsaritsa with love and grandeur
By Tony Halpin in St Petersburg

...The return of the remains was a personal initiative of President Vladimir Putin, who contacted Queen Margrethe II of Denmark to secure support for the reburial in an apparent act of atonement for Russia’s bloody revolutionary history....

UserDane · #**192** 10-01-2006, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathilde1286

As always, thank you, Linda Hsu, for your courteous responses!

Could someone translate this article? http://www.berlingske.dk/udland/artikel:aid=799142/

Hi Mathilde 1296,
You need a special login to see the entire article but from the few lines visible I think the content is much the same as that from the Danish TV2's site which I mentioned in post #150 in this thread. Apparently, Mary wasn't feeling quite well at some point and had to leave for about 10 minutes.

MargreteI · #**193** 10-01-2006, 08:35 AM

I have not seen this picture around, so I just thought I would share.

Not everything went according to protocol at the reburial. I would have included a laughing smiley in this post, but since it could be misunderstood as disrespectful I choose not to.

http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-4982943.html?rss

PS. The man was unharmed from his fall into the grave during the ceremony. Shaken, but not hurt.

Toledo · #**194** 10-01-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MargreteI

I have not seen this picture around, so I just thought I would share.

Not everything went according to protocol at the reburial. I would have included a laughing smiley in this post, but since it could be misunderstood as disrespectful I choose not to.
http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-4982943.html?rss
PS. The man was unharmed from his fall into the grave during the ceremony. Shaken, but not hurt.

Thanks. I read a headline about that accident during the Reburial and could not find the rest of the story! When I read the line about someone falling in the grave I thought it was Grand Duchess Maria being pushed in by her cousins!

But she was shown safely distant from the rest of the clan.

Lady Jennifer · #**195** 10-01-2006, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MargreteI

I have not seen this picture around, so I just thought I would share.

Not everything went according to protocol at the reburial. I would have included a laughing smiley in this post, but since it could be misunderstood as disrespectful I choose not to.

http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-4982943.html?rss

PS. The man was unharmed from his fall into the grave during the ceremony. Shaken, but not hurt.

Thanks for sharing. Could someone provide a synopsis of the article? How exactly did he fall in- did he loose his footing?

norwegianne · #**196** 10-01-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Jennifer

Thanks for sharing. Could someone provide a synopsis of the article? How exactly did he fall in- did he loose his footing?

Apparently the crowd moved forward, - and he was standing on the front line, and the hole wasn't covered with a fence...

Lady Jennifer · #**197** 10-01-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norwegianne

Apparently the crowd moved forward, - and he was standing on the front line, and the hole wasn't covered with a fence...

Thanks for that. Just goes to show you being up front isn't always the best place to be. Good thing he didn't get hurt.

BeatrixFan · #**198** 10-01-2006, 12:28 PM

The chap was a diplomat, his first day in the job and quite possibly his last.

Toledo · #**199** 10-01-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

The chap was a diplomat, his first day in the job and quite possibly his last.

Well, had President Putin assisted to the ceremony and had he been the one falling down...I can imagine all the omen related headlines!

MargreteI · #**200** 10-01-2006, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

The chap was a diplomat, his first day in the job and quite possibly his last.

Nah, things like this is taken lightly and with slight sign of amusement when things go wrong without any sinister intent.

The Foreign Minister Per Sig Rasmussen (K) quoted :

"It could have happend to all of us. The church was very crowded as we were pushed forward. No one looks down when moved forward in such a tight packed church. The grave was without fences and unfortunately he fell in. Lucky he was not hurt, but he must of course be shaken."