Murder of the Imperial Family 17 July 1918

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

There was though - a living, breathing child of Nicholas and Alexandra would always have been a focus for opponents of the regime and so none of them could live.

If that was necessary then execute Nicholas Alexandra and Alexei (though that kills me) and let the daughters go.

[Denville]

If they were goig to be so ruthless, I think that they were going to kill the whole family, ot make sure that the immediate Imperial family was gone and could not be figureheads for a counter revolution. Poor Alexis, I think that although he was male, he was a sick chld who might not live very long.. In a way, there was more justification if they were being that brutlal for killing the girls.. THye were older and although there had not been an empress regnant for a long time, there were examples of women ruling

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

If that was necessary then execute Nicholas Alexandra and Alexei (though that kills me) and let the daughters go.

Even a living daughter would have been a target for royalists. They would have been able to be the focus of any attempt to overthrow the new government.

Given the number of Tsarinas in the past and the existing law (which was that girls could only succeed IF there were no males - not that they could never succeed) they were still very real threats and had to go.

Any Romanovs still in Russia when the Bolsheviks were in power were a threat to the regime and with the White army approaching there was no choice - even though many in the White army didn't want to restore the Romanovs and may even have killed them themselves.

[victor1319]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

even though many in the White army didn't want to restore the Romanovs and may even have killed them themselves.

Wait, what? So, Lenin and his henchmen wanted to kill the Romanovs? And "many in the White Army" too?

Hmmm... And who were the oh so dangerous royalists, which threatened the new regime? Obviously not the red types, and as you say, not the "many in the White Army"... What means, that the royalists were a small minority! And they were that dangerous?

Lenin was the Leader and Organizer of the Red Terror. And the terror started, but by far not ended, with the killing of the Romanovs (imho).

Please, don't get me wrong! These here are the Royal Forums, a place for royal watchers - I for example like the monegasque family, they are very interesting... So, I do not want to bring any bitter thematics into this place, but my following citation makes perfectly clear, what these red dudes were all about:

"To overcome our enemies we must have our own socialist militarism. We must carry along with us 90 million out of the 100 million of Soviet Russia's population. As for the rest, we have nothing to say to them. They must be annihilated."
— Grigory Zinoviev, 1918

[Iluvbertie]

I am fully aware of what the reds were after thank you.

I am saying that not everyone in the whites wanted to restore the monarchy - the whites had NO clear aim at all. They weren't unified. There were some in the whites who were quite happy to see the end of the Romanovs and yes would have killed them if they got the chance. Others wanted to restore the monarchy and others simply wanted Russia to rejoin the war. There were other groups in the white army as well.

[Denville]

They might not have wanted a restoration but I can't quite see why they would be willing to kill the IF.

[Blog Real]

Skulls from the “Ekaterinburg remains” do not belong to the Imperial family

In early April, a group of researchers in Russia, which include two historians and a dentist, claim that the remains discovered near Ekaterinburg in 1979, do not belong to Emperor Nicholas II and his family.
https://royalrussia.news/2018/04/16/...perial-family/

[Pranter]

IIRC the DNA was a match though...


LaRae

[Moonmaiden23]

Correct..they tested mitochondrial DNA from the remains of the bones from either the Empress or one of her daughters and it was an exact match with Prince Philip, their closest living descendant.

[Pranter]

How are they explaining the DNA match if it wasn't the Tsar and his family (or most of them).


LaRae

[Iluvbertie]

There were others that were killed with them - some servants.

They have identified all seven of the Romanovs using Philip and his sister Sophie's DNA - both having the same Mtd DNA as the Empress and her children along with elements of DNA that would match the Tsars due to his descent from Marie and theirs from Marie's brother William (George I of the Hellenes).

[Pranter]

So then what's up with this article...just folks trying to make a name?


LaRae

[Iluvbertie]

There are people, including elements of the Russian Orthodox Church, who don't support the scientific evidence and who don't want the remains to be the family at all.

[Pranter]

Aha...interesting. Thanks Bertie!

ETA: Why do the Orthodox (some of them) prefer it not be the Romanov's...is it the whole Rasputin thing?


LaRae

[Lady Nimue]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

There are people, including elements of the Russian Orthodox Church, who don't support the scientific evidence and who don't want the remains to be the family at all.

Curious, too. Why don't they want the remains to be the family at all?

[eya]

Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia blesses the Church of Fyodorovskaya Icon of Our Lady as part of commemorative events marking the centenary of the murder of the Russian royal family on 15 July

http://1.t.cdn.belga.be/belgaimage:1...ed5&m=ecdhnhkn
http://2.t.cdn.belga.be/belgaimage:1...ed5&m=ddacaihg
http://1.t.cdn.belga.be/belgaimage:1...ed5&m=mnkfaeja
http://0.t.cdn.belga.be/belgaimage:1...ed5&m=ajcccnnp

https://www.profimedia.cz/similar/377903284

Olga-Kulikovskaya-Romanova, widow of Nicholas II's nephew Tikhon Kulikovsky-Romanovwas present

http://1.t.cdn.belga.be/belgaimage:1...ed5&m=haajpkmm

[wyevale]

Tonight is the 100th anniversary of the massacre of the Imperial Family [and their remaining servants]
, in the basement of the Ipatiev House in Ekaterinburg.

NOTHING can erase this monstrous stain on the History of the Russian peoples,and the taking of so many innocent lives without even the semblance of a Trial.

Myself and other Monarchists will be keeping Vigil at the [Russian Orthodox] Cathedral of the Dormition of the Mother of God and the Royal Martyrs, in Chiswick, West London.
Doubtless it will be a deeply moving ceremony, and 'packed to the rafters'..

[Missjersey]

God rest their souls.

[victor1319]

Originally Posted by Pranter

How are they explaining the DNA match if it wasn't the Tsar and his family (or most of them).


LaRae

Perhaps the DNA samples were taken from the bones and not the heads? BTW There are some theories, that the heads were taken to Moscow back then, right after the murders. I did read this today in the german public televison news.
https://www.mdr.de/zeitreise/hundert...manow-100.html


in english (Google Translator)
Google Translate


And this is of importance, since elements in the Russian Church have a theory about a ritual murder.

[An Ard Ri]

The Anniversary of the Murder of the Imperial Family in the news

Russia: Remains of the murdered Romanovs 'authentic'

https://www.dw.com/en/russia-remains...tic/a-44700092

https://www.rt.com/politics/433365-f...nfirm-romanov/

Russia's royals found: DNA evidence discovers the last tsar | Daily Mail Online