Monarchy and Restoration; Rival Families and Claimants

[Al_bina]

Originally Posted by BorisRom

As to hearsays about the influence of Rasputin on Alexandra\Nicholas decisions these hearsays were hundredfold exaggerated by opposition.

The sentence "The points 1-6 may be untrue to reality" means that these assumptions about Nicholas II might prove false upon the closer examination of factual information. At the same time, I strongly believe that Rasputin had a negative influence on the Imperial family.

[BorisRom]

Originally Posted by Al_bina

<...>At the same time, I strongly believe that Rasputin had a negative influence on the Imperial family.

Al bina,
Of course, Rasputin after 1914 gave irreconcilable opposition many occasions for attacks on Alexandra\Nicholas (and - the MAIN thing - many occasions for distribution of hearsays and slander), however, Rasputin himself had not a negative influence on the Imperial family. More correctly to tell, that his influence was positive (+!!!) in all aspects.
Many oppositionists with surprise have recognized, that it has been changed nothing after murder of Rasputin. Others have told, that all things became even worse.
Boris

[Al_bina]

Originally Posted by BorisRom

Al bina,
Of course, Rasputin after 1914 gave irreconcilable opposition many occasions for attacks on Alexandra\Nicholas (and - the MAIN thing - many occasions for distribution of hearsays and slander), however, Rasputin himself had not a negative influence on the Imperial family. More correctly to tell, that his influence was positive (+!!!) in all aspects.
Many oppositionists with surprise have recognized, that it has been changed nothing after murder of Rasputin. Others have told, that all things became even worse.
Boris

Boris,
I do respect your opinion about Rasputin, but I believe that we will never agree on this matter. I do adhere to my opinion that Rasputin had an adverse effect on the Imperial Family. At the same time, I concede that he might be clairvoyant and even might possess some qualities of healer.

[BorisRom]

Originally Posted by Al_bina

Boris, <...> I do adhere to my opinion that Rasputin had an adverse effect on the Imperial Family. <...>

Al bina,
Whether you can result one-two concrete example of negative influence of Rasputin on Imperial family? As far as I remember, in 1917 the Commission of Provisional government could not find any important compromising evidences (proofs) neither on Rasputin, nor on empress Alexandra.
By the way, I shall remind, that main "cool girl" and "girl-friend" (and ostensibly "companion in crime") of Rasputin, Anna Vyrubova in reply to charge has demanded medical examination and she appeared the virgin. I think, the same effect is the answer to other charges to address of Rasputin.
Boris

[BorisRom]

Director of Department of police (in 1916) A.T.Vasiliev («Okhrana - Russian secret police») wrote (in 1920-th ):
«Harbingers of revolution aspired to make from Rasputin a frightful-image to carry out own devilish plans. Therefore they distributed the most bad hearsays which made an impression, that only at intermediary of this Siberian muzhik it is possible to achieve a high position and influence …
A mind (a natural wisdom) and natural sharpness enabled him sometimes soberly and acutely to judge the person even on one meeting or a sight. It was known to tsarina, therefore she sometimes asked his opinion on this or that candidate on a high post in the government. But from such questions up to ostensibly an ordering of ministers by Rasputin - very big step and neither tsar, nor tsarina never did this step, undoubtedly.
Nevertheless many people believed, that all depends on a scrap of a paper with the several words written by Rasputin's hand … Sometimes I investigated these hearsays, but never found convincing proofs of their truthfulness.
Someone can think, that all this is my sentimental inventions. No, I base on reports of agents which worked as years as servants in house of Rasputin - they knew his daily life up to the smallest details».

[Al_bina]

Boris,
Anna Vyrubova was a lady-in-waiting and close confidant of Tsaritsa Alexandra Fyodorovna, who preferred her over other ladies of more distinction at the court. Poor lady had a bad perverse husband. If memory serves me right, she introduced Rasputin to the Imperial Family.
I am glad to know that the educated Imperial Family really needed “… mind (a natural wisdom) and natural sharpness…” of a Siberian muzhik to rule the Russian Empire. Yes, Rasputin saw visions as well as was clairvoyant and healer. I even believe that he did write a letter with prophecies to Simonovich (Rasputin's secretary) a week before his death. Yet what legacy did he leave behind? Drinking, debauching, and accepting bribes… As Russian proverb runs it, "The world is full of rumours". So some rumours were true. A poor and saint Rasputin was vilified and used by bad nobility and proletarians. What a pity…
Additionally, there is a number of advisors in the Russian history, who rose to power because they were favourites of Russian Empresses: Shuvalov, Orlov, or Potemkin to name a few. It should be noted that Rasputin had different kind of relationships with the Imperial Family. Anyway, these favourites were not pious, but they used their abilities to make the Russian Empire more prosperous and powerful, without creating cults of a questionable nature. In what way did Rasputin's abilities help Russia? By the way, Catherine II was as German as Alexandra Fyodorovna.
Furthermore, I assume that innocent St. Rasputin has nothing to do with the subject under discussion.

[BorisRom]

Originally Posted by Al_bina

<...>Furthermore, I assume that innocent St. Rasputin has nothing to do with the subject under discussion.

Al bina,
Well, of course, Rasputin was not innocent and saint man… But…
To quote poetess Anna Akhmatova, "we're all drunkards here, and harlots…"
It is true at least for Russians and for those who loves poetry of Russia

[BorisRom]

If to speak extremely seriously (philosophically, mystically and in religious sense) the murder of Rasputin was a prologue to overthrow of the monarchy and to the murder of Imperial family. In turn, the murder of Imperial family was an epilogue and a symbol of falling of Russia into precipice of Empire of evil (in the USSR). This falling has made Russians by the Soviet zombi... And nostalgia about the past of Russia for a long time do not rise up in many of Russians above these bitter lines: «we're all drunkards here, and harlots … »
How it is possible to restore a monarchy in the country of drunkards and prostitutes of spirit? At least, it is necessary to be conscious of a necessity of repentance first.

[Al_bina]

Boris,
I shy away from comparing historical times or regimes in a categorical fashion. Each regime has its positive and negative sides as well as employs ideology to zombie people. There was absolute paradise neither during the Romanovs’ reign nor during the Soviet era. Some things were comparatively better, whereas others were comparatively worse.
If you are for repentance, let Russian repent… At the same time, I allow repeating myself that the current generation of the Romanovs (Grand Duchess and her son) is highly unlikely to restore the monarchy. It is time for a new strong and charismatic dynasty.
While Russia has vodka, it is invincible…

[BorisRom]

Originally Posted by Al_bina

Boris,
I shy away from comparing historical times or regimes in a categorical fashion. Each regime has its positive and negative sides as well as employs ideology to zombie people. There was absolute paradise neither during the Romanovs’ reign nor during the Soviet era. Some things were comparatively better, whereas others were comparatively worse. <...>

Al bina,
I think, the refusal of categorical estimations of political modes is not distributed to nazi Germany (in XX century) and to Northern Korea now, at least. In 1939 the USSR began WWII together with nazi Germany and the USSR remained Germany's ally till June, 22, 1941. Bolshevik's mode was a criminal and bloody mode from the very beginning and till 1953 at least. The communistic ideology is absolutely incorrect and unacceptable for any believing person. USSR was Empire of evil prior to the beginning of "reorganization\Perestroika" (till 1987).
However, we already discussed all this here. I agree, that there is no sense to go on this circle again.
In any case if the Kremlin will continue the way «back in the USSR» and again will aim the rockets at Europe, the majority of civilized people will name Russia «Empire of evil» again. Alas.

[Al_bina]

As the proverb runs it, "That place is best of all where we haven't been at all". Thus, I do not view Russia as an "Empire of Evil". Restoration will not make Russia any more democratic.

[BorisRom]

Originally Posted by Al_bina

<...>Restoration will not make Russia any more democratic.

Perhaps, you are right.
I don't think modern Russia is «Empire of evil», however, I think, if modern Russia will continue the way «back in the USSR» she(it) will collapsed on some parts just as the USSR in 1991 has collapsed. Certainly, I do not want it, but I think, it can take place till 2012.
In this case a monarchy can be restored in a northwest part of Russia with capital in Saint Petersburg. It will be the democratic country from Pskov (in the West) up to Perm\Ural (in the east) and up to Yaroslavl (in the south).
Siberia will departure to China, and Moskovia the unknown destiny waits. Perhaps, Moskovia will form confederation with Belarus and Kazakhstan.

[Al_bina]

Boris,
Do you think that the current generation of the Romanovs will be capable of effectively ruling Russia?
By the way, I detest Moscow because it is just a big village with arrogant people. I prefer St.Petersburg as it is more refined and aristocratic. I have relatives in St. Petersburg.

[BorisRom]

Al bina,
I doubt, that the current generation of the Romanovs will be capable of effectively ruling Russia though I do not know each of them well enough (and I am not familiar personally with anybody from them) - therefore I'm not sure in my doubts :)
I'm glad to hear, that you like Saint Petersburg and have the relatives here. Now you have here familiar on the Internet also. I think, the abundance of bouquets (flowerets) in our correspondence at this forum can pleasantly surprise other participants of the forum.
Boris

[royalone3]

No, Russia does not NEED a monarchy,but I'd still like to see them have a new Czar.Need and want are two different things.

[chancellor]

Privet to all !

Russ, well Tsar or no Tsar Russia will carry on, that is survival however there have been Tsars always since the fall, they have been in other forms Stalin the man of steel , was he a good representative of socialism , l think not, all those wasted arguments l see on this site highly subjective often with out research and across the board generalizations.

Russia is a huge land mass, physically hard to manage, has hostile borders in some areas, its infrastructure is currently being rebuilt, some many basic issues, however l will state the obvious, it could be a constitutional form or purely ceremonial , the one thing that should underpin it is spiritual, people need faith, the Tsar had this ,the legacy of the Byzantium kingdom, this is important spiritually, the Church has the continuation of a chain of Bishops, from the laying of hands from Bishop to the next a historical spiritual chain back to the apostles.

The comments from the west on this web site lack the Eastern concepts of the vision of Orthodox mind set, l see into some various comments very frivolous quick to the tongue comments, if you have been effected by the civil war in Russia and had family all over the planet because of it then your comments come more deeply, in the diaspora at meetings and events l have seen Russians on their knees crying at this great loss, l have this great 2 DVD set which covers the end and into the diaspora, one interview with Mr Federoff + [rip] more than 100 years old , told the story of the desperation and the loss they felt, the horses of the cossacks abandoned wandering looking for their owners, the Russian fleet that left only to rot in Biserte in North Africa, the sailors family et had to carve a new life out in China eg Harbin etc. then only to be uprooted again , they went every where to make anew, some of these light hearted comments about the Tsar on this site are heart breaking to say the least.

The Russian Imperial Union Order, a legacy of the Imperial Army, has been active ever since the civil war, has produced countless publications since the fall of the homeland, been in active service and organised rallies during the Socialist period has a very clear and long standing view, its come from hard work ,affirmative action, and now growing strong in the homeland once again.

For those not from Russia, there is a strong feeling on the move again, l read some one quoting from some poll in Russia on the subject. l ask have they ever read the book how to lie with statistics , we can say that we really just don't know as yet, l cannot see in the future but can see a theme on the move though, just maybe it might happen.

l wish you all well

Ðîññèéñêîå Ìîíàðõè÷åñêîå Äâèæåíèå - Monarhia.Ru
the main web site a must for all those making opinions please read the article's in detail] Please l ask all those making comments many that are defamatory and un pleasant, please review the one on one interviews on this site with the Grand Duke, its better to have some useful real and tangible info, than a lot of hot air, the other link gives you updated news, the Russian Imperial Union Order, which is the legacy of the White Army of Imperial Russia, is the most long serving and active organisation, has a proven active service since the Civil War in Russia, numerous publications on Orthodoxy History and active service, we have served Imperial Russia since the loss of the homeland, should any one wish to read our publications contact the headquarters







Èíòåðíåò ïîðòàë "Ìîíàðõèñò.ÐÓ"



This is an excellent link for you, much news, the Latest on the HIH GD Maria

for those non Russia speakers please put the URL in Babel fish and it will give you a translation , not perfect but enough to keep up with the latest news, l see many comments about the Grand Duke but the other link l gave you has some great info from one on one interviews with HIH GD George

again for the non Russians please read a previous posting of the link to the HIH GD Maria secretary web site , same thing put the URL in Babel fish .


RIUO the main international site

Russian Imperial Order Austraila




Interfax-Religion

Lateline - 03/08/2007: Russian-Australians celebrate at gala ball Russian Ball in Melbourne

ÐÎÄÈÍÀ. ÊÎÍÃÐÅÑÑ ÐÓÑÑÊÈÕ ÎÁÙÈÍ Monarchist political party Russia


http://russianwelfare.org.au/pdf/october_2007.pdf
this link will give you the newsletter HYAC you will see many recent photos of HIH GD Maria Tour of Australia.


http://www.riuo.org/SUCCESSION_ENGLISH.pdf

here is an approved Orthodox Church succession document authored by

Prince Cyril Toumanoff,
Professor of History,
Emeritus Georgetown University
Washington, D.C.

[Al_bina]

Dear chancellor,
You have been very kind to let this Forum know that our discussion might be defined “wasted arguments … highly subjective often without research and across the board generalizations” (chancellor, 2007, ¶1). It has been my understanding that, the thread in question is supposed to be an exchange of various opinions in a constructive manner. The Forum members from different parts of the world engage into discussing the issue-in-hand by sharing and substantiating their personal views that rest upon personal knowledge of the subject-matter, which is based on books, news paper articles, and other source of information available to a particular individual. I believe that each member of this Forum has got a full right to express his/her point of view without fear of being offended by others.
What could you say about politics of the perfect Romanovs in regard to Kazakhstan? What about throwing Kazakh people from their land and bringing starved peasants from Russia? I mean the reform-mined Stolypin government that opted to solve Russia’s land problem by sending millions of Russians and Ukrainians to work so-called Kazakh surplus lands. Moreover, titles of the Kazakh nobility were not duly recognised by the Russian empire.
It would be fair to say that Lenin and other leaders of the Communist party did actually uphold and continue the tsarist policy. Both monarchy and communist regime in the territory of Russia and neighbouring lands did abuse human rights and subject usual people to various socio-economic experiments that cost many human lives. As Russian proverb runs it, “The pleasures of the mighty are the tears of the poor”.

[COUNTESS]

Al Bina, you were quite on the mark. It is always a pleasure to read your responses. The Chancellor might be correct in presuming that western ideas and ideals might be different from the Orthodox mindset, but, as in many things, there are many sides to the coin. I don't beleive any nation "needs" a monarchy. Today, they are mostly ceremonial.

[chancellor]

Greetings,

Yes we can say what we like to a point, then it can become defamation after that.

What did you think of the HIH GD George interviews ?. My point who knows what the future holds, Hitler the national socialist who would of thought that could of come, the are many non Monarchical regimes that have come and gone some were very bad indeed in fact there have been far more rotten to the core elected and non elected governments than Imperial ones.


l hope people read the links as people are always commenting on the HIH's, so some news from the official desk there for you

Countess, did you read the news letter, its a PDF linked above, you also have HIH GD Maria Secretary's web site and a Imperial news web site, l would like your opinion of the Russia Welfares newsletter on the Tour of the HIH GD Maria in Australia Countess you have missed the point on Byzantine legagcy, the 3rd Rome !

l think l will go and have a Vodka now, followed by pilmenny with sour cream and dream of how people use to be mannered and civil

Stepan

[COUNTESS]

Chancellor, The pilmenny and sour cream sounds wonderful, so does the vodka. The restoration of the Romanov's is less appealing. Yes, there are plenty of governments which are non-monarchial, that are quite bad, too. Those people you dream of that used to be mannered and civil, built their empires on the pain and labor of the many. The Romanov's were some of the greatest abusers.