Monarchy and Restoration; Rival Families and Claimants

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Ceallach

I said she might try - did not say it would succeed.

Well, Maria can try (and has been trying for years) but the reality is her status at birth is no better than anyone else who is also the issue from a marriage of a male dynast and a Russian noble female. Given equality on that point, Nicholas Romanovich takes precedence as a male (Dimitri Illinsky has acknowledged his cousin as head of the family).

However, Maria's father was the undisputed Head of the Imperial House at the time of his marriage and declared his wife to be equal. Since the Tsar was the sole arbitrator of whether any marriage was acceptable or not, she does have an edge there. She also married equally to HRH Prince Franz-Wilhelm of Prussia, which her cousins have not.

In my opinion, she is the rightful Head of the Imperial House as her father's successor, but anyone could be called to the throne in the future if there is a restoration.

[Ceallach]

Leonida's family has been recognized as the royal family of Georgia and rightful heirs of the Georgian royals who once ruled Georgia by Georgia. It is a situation more compariable to Montenegro than the Russian nobles who consider themselves Russian nobles not royals of another country.

Is it just because Leonida was born when Georgia was under Russia? Russia overtook Georgia and now it is free yet Nicholas still won't recognize it as a seprate place with it's own royal family.

Does he recognize Nicholas of Montenegro, his relative, as would-be king of Montenegro like Montenegro does and even Alexander of Serbia seems to too (They seemed quite friendly at Michael of Romania's birthday party). Or else does he not recognize him since when his parents were married and he was born Montenegro was under rule of the King of Serbia. Does he recognize Alexander as the rightful king of Montenegro instead? Or does he have a double standard for Maria vs Nicholas of Montenegro.

He talks proudly of his Montenegran grandmother and does not hide his roots. He does not seem to think the fact that his grand mother's royal family was overthrown and her country was under the power of the King of another country when he was born affects his status but he passes that judgement on Maria because her mother's family's status.

I do not see how in his eyes he and the others with Montengran roots justify this.

Maria's parents marriage was not morgantic and she is as rightful an heir to Russia and Nicholas is to Montenegro.

[Ceallach]

Originally Posted by Alexey 1904

Yes, I suppose you are right about there being no monarch of Russia, Romanov or other, Countess. Maria V. still claims the 'dynasty' will be under the rule of her son, 'Tsarevich' Georgi. Are there any descendants of Cleopatra around any more, I wonder?

The last monarch was in 1955 and there is an unquestioned pretender to Egypt.

[COUNTESS]

You can dig up any old monarchy and find a couple of folks who think they will be restored to some position, hopefully. This is thw 21st century, so I think they should lead their lives as best they can and look for day jobs.

[AristoCat]

Perhaps if Maria were not so hostile and didn't make herself out to be the only Romanov left, plus her pork-pie son, just maybe the rest of the Romanovs would be willing to come to some agreement. As for a restoration, that would be something the RUSSIANS would have to decide on, not the Duma, Kremlin, or President, Prime Minister, or any other Romanov. Then there would have to be a choice as to who and it would have ot be honored.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by AristoCat

Perhaps if Maria were not so hostile and didn't make herself out to be the only Romanov left, plus her pork-pie son, just maybe the rest of the Romanovs would be willing to come to some agreement. As for a restoration, that would be something the RUSSIANS would have to decide on, not the Duma, Kremlin, or President, Prime Minister, or any other Romanov. Then there would have to be a choice as to who and it would have ot be honored.

An agreement on what? There is nothing for the two sides to agree upon since they are so far apart on the fundamental question of the Pauline Laws that there is no possibility of reconciliation.

The reality is both sides are wrong. With Vladimir's death in 1992, the direct male-lines of the family went extinct of dynasts since they are ALL morganatic. The Romanov-Holstein-Gottorp dynasty is now in the dustbin of history.

The question is which female line would the throne pass (Alexander II or Nicholas II) since the Pauline Law states the rights pass through the female line of the last reigning Emperor when the male lines are all defunct.

Since Nicholas' sisters have no dynastic descendants, the rights are through Princess Olga of Greece & Denmark's marriage to Prince Paul of Yugoslavia, or Vladimir's sisters, who both married equally.

Alternatively, the throne, if ever restored, could be offered to anyone chosen by the Russian people or Government. There is no law or obligation to the Romanovs, who abdicated their rights in 1917.

[AristoCat]

Alternatively, the throne, if ever restored, could be offered to anyone chosen by the Russian people or Government. There is no law or obligation to the Romanovs, who abdicated their rights in 1917

I know that, that is why I said it would be up to the RUSSIANS, not any Romanov.

[Ceallach]

Originally Posted by AristoCat

The Caputo Family Association apparently recognizes her:
Pretenders to the Throne -

She is not only recognized by the Almanach de Gotha - she is one of the officers.



THE OFFICERS OF THE ALMANACH DE SAXE GOTHA
_____________________________________________________


Honoury Société President of The Almanach de Gotha
His Majesty King Juan Carlos I of Spain

Honoury Chairman of The Almanach de Gotha
His Majesty King Michael I of Romania

Honoury Deputy Chairmen of The Almanach de Gotha
Her Imperial Highness
Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna of Russia
de jure Empress and Autocrat of All the Russias

[Benedict XVI]

Which branch of the Romanov family have the better chances at getting the crown.

[Benedict XVI]

If Russia decided to become a monarchy again would the people restore the Romanovs back on the throne or would they rather begin a whole new Dynasty.

[branchg]

I think it's highly unlikely the Romanovs would ever be restored to the throne. Their history is too controversial and blood-stained and the strong Communist legacy in Russia would be adamantly opposed.

It would be a new dynasty.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Benedict XVI

Which branch of the Romanov family have the better chances at getting the crown.

Many threads already on this question. The bottom line is none of them have a realistic chance or a claim. The dynasty is now defunct of dynasts in the male-line.

[Grandduchess24]

The person who carries the bloodline closest to the last czar should have the crown but a forum was already started on her.

[Benedict XVI]

And you are probably right the Romanovs argue to much about who is the rightful heir. I think that it would show that Russia has closed the soviet era and is beginning a new. But if they decided to restore the monarchy wouldn't the Romanovs get to present there case to the russian people.

[Kasumi]

Originally Posted by Benedict XVI

Which branch of the Romanov family have the better chances at getting the crown.

None.
If there will be any constitutional monarchy established (not during our lifetime ), there will be whole new dynasty elected during plebiscite in Russia.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Benedict XVI

And you are probably right the Romanovs argue to much about who is the rightful heir. I think that it would show that Russia has closed the soviet era and is beginning a new. But if they decided to restore the monarchy wouldn't the Romanovs get to present there case to the russian people.

Well, I don't think the present system of government in Russia is interested in letting "the people" have a true say in who is elected to office, so the question is rather moot in my opinion.

There is little chance of restoration unless someone (i.e. Putin) decides the monarchy would be a useful tool in controlling the image of the State. In that case, the powers that be would decide who they could control best in deciding who will sit on a throne.

It could be a Romanov, or another royal house or a non-royal.

[Benedict XVI]

Are you sure it won't be in our life time? In the next 20 years almost all the leaders from the Soviet Union that have stayed in power in the new regime will be dead or retired. Also by then a big group of the communist party will be dead and replaced with the newer generation of democrats. The democrats usually are a lot more supportive of a monarchy especially with the milestone that will be coming in the next 10 years like the 400th anniversary and the 100th anniversary of there brutal death of the Imperial family. I am a young person so I expect it to happen in my lifetime.

[branchg]

I think a constitutional reform of Russia's government and the installation of real democracy is necessary first. Otherwise, the monarchy would become a symbol of state control, very much like in the past, and eventually hated again by the Russian people.

The average Russian cares little about monarchy and more about democracy and ending corruption.

[Benedict XVI]

Which I believe as soon as they can get rid of people like Putin that will help a lot and as long as he stays in power there will be corruption. But I think they need to find the right president who will end corruption and bring forth a real democracy In Russia. But as long as there is corruption they will hate this government just as much as a monarchy. I think in my lifetime I will see an end to this regime in Russia.

[Benedict XVI]

Ya that makes sense to me. If it ware truly up to the people would they call for a Zemsky Sobor? I think they need to put a limit on terms in Russia that would get rid of all the corruption they have. But as long as it is up to Putin or any former soviet there will be hardly any chance for a monarchy.