Monarchy and Restoration; Rival Families and Claimants

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Cory

Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna was born in a clear equal marriage.Her mother was a Princess of Georgia belonging to one of the most ancient Royal Families in the world.It is true that between the beginning of the XIXth century till to the XXth century Georgia was occupied by the russian troops and its Royal Family was not recognized with the royal status by the Russian Empire.But nobody can say the Royal Family of George has the same rank with a russian aristocrat family.
There is no evidence Grand Duchess Maria is not the Head of the Imperial Family of Russia.The Laws of Succession (for who really study them) are quite clear.

Royal House of Georgia | Royal house | Dynasty

The Gruzinsky line is direct to the last reigning King of Georgia, not the Moukhransky, which has been junior and non-reigning for centuries. Leonida's line hasn't been royal for hundreds of years. The Russian noble houses, some of which were rulers in Belarus and other part of the Empire prior to Russification, were all subjects of the Tsar as well.

No one is saying Maria doesn't have a valid claim. The real issue is her claim is no better than anyone else who is also descended from a marriage between a dynast and a woman of the Russian nobility (including Nicholas Romanov). Given that point, she takes precedence after the senior male morganauts because she is a woman.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by branchg

No one is saying Maria doesn't have a valid claim. The real issue is her claim is no better than anyone else who is also descended from a marriage between a dynast and a woman of the Russian nobility (including Nicholas Romanov). Given that point, she takes precedence after the senior male morganauts because she is a woman.

Thank you. That is the point I was trying to make but not as well as you. It seems to me that no one alive meets the requirements under the laws of succession and for the sake of lively discussion, if nothing else, we can discuss who should be the head of the deposed house. But it seems like some of us are perceived as beating our heads against the wall.

[Cory]

Grand Duchess Leonida descended from the serior line of the Royal House of Georgia( there were different branches and different little georgian Kingdoms until the late XVIIIth century) .She belonged to a Royal House that is more ancient than the Romanovs.Before and after the russian occupation nobody denied the royal status of the Bagratides.Even today we speak about the possibility of restoring on the Throne of Georgia Prince Davod of Bagration, one of Grand Duchess Leonida's close relatives.
All the campaigns who try to deny the Headship of the Imperial House for Grand Duchess Maria do not serve at anything because are without serious reasons and are made usually by persons who have a special sympathy for one or another of the descendants of morganatic marriage.
Despite these controversies the russian state in the last 20 years have always given the specific respect to grand Duchess Maria in accordance with the traditional imperial laws, with the voice of russian orthodoxy .
If Monarchy will be restored ever in Russia Grand Duchess Maria, Grand Duke George or their descendants will have to prove they deserve their heritage.

http://www.riuo.org/RussianImperialS...uccession.html

http://www.chivalricorders.org/royal...ha/russucc.htm

[Al_bina]

Even today we speak about the possibility of restoring on the Throne of Georgia Prince Davod of Bagration, one of Grand Duchess Leonida's close relatives.

If memory serves me right, neither Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna nor Grand Duke Georgii attended the wedding of Prince David and Princess Anna. It is a moot point whether the Georgian restoration ever takes place.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Al_bina

If memory serves me right, neither Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna nor Grand Duke Georgii attended the wedding of Prince David and Princess Anna. It is a moot point whether the Georgian restoration ever takes place.

That's correct. And Maria has been very careful in interviews with the Russian media not to disparage the Kremlin's actions in trying to destabilize Georgia or its duly-elected government. The last thing she wants is any attention to be drawn to the fact her mother was Georgian.

Russia is not exactly supportive of Georgia or its independence, especially under the reign of Putin.

[vorky]

Children born of a marriage between a person of the Imperial Family and a person not of corresponding dignity, that is not belonging to any royal or sovereign house, have no right of succession to the Throne.

source

It seems for me that Moukhransky´s were not sovereign house when GD Vladimir married. Can we say that Moukhransky´s were (are) royal house? Cory says that yes. If it is true, than condition of Pauline Law is fulfilled.

[Cory]

Grand Duchess Maria would not speak too much about Georgia because of the policy of Russia towards this country.

It is true there are different branches of the Royal House of Georgia and every of these reigned in a certain moment on a Principality or Kingdom in Georgia.

[Cory]

For those who want to understand better the Russian Succession:

RussianImperialSuccession

Russian monarchists' new Document:

http://en.legitimist.ru/news/2011/07...for-russi.html

Possibilities of restoration:

http://en.legitimist.ru/news/2011/04...-possible.html

[genegirl99]

Okay, pretend for a moment that restoration is possible. The average Russian goes to the voting booth and has three candidates for Tsar: Georgi of Russia, Rostislav Romanov, and Michael of Kent. And say Rostislav won the vote. What would happen? What would his role be? What new house rules could be come up with?

[Cory]

In the case of the restoration surely Grand Duchess Maria becomes Empress being recognized as Head of the imperial House by the Russian Orthodox Church and by the authorities.The succession is automatic and no popular vote can influence on that.
The problem is the majority of russians do not seem to be interested in this moment in a restoration.

[genegirl99]

Suspend your belief for a moment.

[Cory]

The Imperial House of Russia represents an hereditary Monarchy so things are like this.The main issue is that there is no sign for a restoration of Monarchy now.
Why should Putin or Medvedev want to restore the Romanovs?

[Russophile]

Tourist dollars.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Cory

The Imperial House of Russia represents an hereditary Monarchy so things are like this.The main issue is that there is no sign for a restoration of Monarchy now.
Why should Putin or Medvedev want to restore the Romanovs?

They won't. It's not going to happen and there is little-to-no support for a monarchy in Russia among average citizens.

[genegirl99]

Okay folks, I was talking about a fantasy, not in real life...it came out of my idle curiosity and imagination...

[AristoCat]

Are there not more neutral choices?

[Cory]

Strangely the russian authorities are very pleased to see Grand Duchess Maria visiting Ukraine or the separatist region of Transnistria because like this the russian influence is underlined.

[genegirl99]

Originally Posted by AristoCat

Are there not more neutral choices?

I just picked those three off the top of my head...knowing of anyone other than Georgi won, Maria would freak...

I could have myself up. All my German ancestors moved to Russia before coming to the US. ;-). My great-great-grandpa surrendered his allegiance to Tsar Nicholas II. His father and his father's nephew surrendered their allegiances to the Provisional Government... When they became US citizens.

[Cory]

Any political party with members in the Duma is in favour of monarchy?

[AristoCat]

knowing of anyone other than Georgi won, Maria would freak...

That would be interesting to watch.