Monarchy and Restoration; Rival Families and Claimants

[Warren]

Depends on what you mean by "secrets". Anything not publicly known is/was a "secret", Alexandra's private thoughts on people and events - if she wrote them down - would be "secret" from those who didn't know what was in her mind.

So yes, there would be lots of "secrets", but I doubt that few of them would be earth-shattering ("very worried about Alexei", "told Nicky to be strong", "prayed with Ella", "Dagmar pushing my buttons again", "people were nicer in Darmstadt"...)

Then again, her diary may have just contained an outline of her daily activities along with a weather report (eg George V).

[Vasillisos Markos]

Maybe, but then, maybe not. We will never know for sure what was in the diaries. I see I have been censored once again for being naughty. . . I could have sworn I made some comment about gossip

[nascarlucy]

The sad thing is, nobody will really know. It's too bad that someone couldn't have read the diaries and then determined what would be saved and what would not. Someone who could be trusted would read them.

Sometimes when you read another person's diary, you read things into it that aren't there or you try to interpret the person's thoughts or feelings. If the wording is vague or ambiguous, then people who read it have differing opinions. Unless you know them personally or have read a lot of what they had written, this would be very difficult to interpret what they meant.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by nascarlucy

The sad thing is, nobody will really know. It's too bad that someone couldn't have read the diaries and then determined what would be saved and what would not. Someone who could be trusted would read them.

Sometimes when you read another person's diary, you read things into it that aren't there or you try to interpret the person's thoughts or feelings. If the wording is vague or ambiguous, then people who read it have differing opinions. Unless you know them personally or have read a lot of what they had written, this would be very difficult to interpret what they meant.

I think that is exactly why Alexandra destroyed the letters and diaries -- she did not want them used to distort her meaning or to put a twist to her thoughts or take sentences out of context. Still, it is a pity we don't have them, even if they are worthless to historians. Reading on in the Dehn book, Dehn writes that after she and Anna Vyrobuva are taken away and imprisoned, Dehn manages to rip up the letters which Anna took as keepsakes before the jailers might have discovered them. That Lili Dehn, she was on a one woman mission to destroy first hand accounts.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

I see I have been censored once again for being naughty. . . I could have sworn I made some comment about gossip

Neither censored nor naughty, but led astray by Russo aka the Temptress who may, on the odd occasion, divert a discussion into what is in effect personal chit chat.
Such empty posts will be cleaned up here and elsewhere by myself and other Mods usually within a day or two, sometimes sooner, sometimes later.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Warren

Neither censored nor naughty, but led astray by Russo aka the Temptress who may, on the odd occasion, divert a discussion into what is in effect personal chit chat.
Such empty posts will be cleaned up here and elsewhere by myself and other Mods usually within a day or two, sometimes sooner, sometimes later.

Whoops! Busted again!!

[Yekaterina]

i pray every day that we will have monarchy back soon. russia needs a tsar and nothing else. we were lost for so many years. and i know we will soon have a tsar back in our country!!! ))))

[AdmiralSteven]

Originally Posted by Yekaterina

i pray every day that we will have monarchy back soon. russia needs a tsar and nothing else. we were lost for so many years. and i know we will soon have a tsar back in our country!!! ))))

I read an article, Russia: Monarchist Nostalgia Remains Powerful, that said that monarchial nostalgia is on the rise in Russia. Apparently over a 10 year period, at least at the time of the article, dated October 2006, the number of Russians with monarchist ideas had risen 3 fold. And according to a poll, probably dated 2006, the same as the article, 19% of Russians favored restoring the monarchy if a suitable candidate could be found. Read the article, it's very intersting, at least I found it interesting.

[iamtheoneandonly]

Does anyone know anything about this handsome Russian prince who lives in NY ? He was on a US TV programme called Young, Rich and Royal or something. I think he is a member of the Prince Romanov's clan rather than the Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna's .

[COUNTESS]

Of course, those who wish for a Tsar, have no idea what it was like to live under one.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by iamtheoneandonly

Does anyone know anything about this handsome Russian prince who lives in NY ? He was on a US TV programme called Young, Rich and Royal or something. I think he is a member of the Prince Romanov's clan rather than the Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna's .

i am not sure what you mean by "Prince Romanov's clan" There are Americans descended from Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich Romanov. I believe they go by the surname Illyinsky and use Romanov (or Romanoff) as a middle name. Could you be more specific or come up with a name?

[MAfan]

There are also some descendants of Grand Duke Alexander and Grand Duchess Xenia living in the US, and most of them are supporters of Prince Nicholas Romanovic and the Romanov Family Association rather than Maria Vladimirovna.

[Yekaterina]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Of course, those who wish for a Tsar, have no idea what it was like to live under one.

and you have idea??? you must be very old then. in my family my grandparents and great grandmother always have talked to me and told me stories from the past. they were monarchists and always will be. the russians know that revolution was a big mistake. we had more terror after the tsar was gone. even the enemies of the monarchy admit it. but americans knows it best, right?

[Al_bina]

I think it largely depends on what a particular family or individual lost or gained due to the revolution of 1917. I am not sure about "the russians know that revolution was a big mistake". It is incorrect to make such blanket statements.

[Kasumi]

Good observation, Al_bina!

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

i am not sure what you mean by "Prince Romanov's clan" There are Americans descended from Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich Romanov. I believe they go by the surname Illyinsky and use Romanov (or Romanoff) as a middle name. Could you be more specific or come up with a name?

VM, I think it's one of Xenia and Sandro's brood, remember she popped out an awful lot of boys--much to Alix's dismay!

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Of course, those who wish for a Tsar, have no idea what it was like to live under one.

As those who did are dead. :grin: However, it is a romantic notion, not logical, but romantic none the less.

[nascarlucy]

My maternal grandmother's family and extended family came from Latvia and Poland. Al bina hit it right on the nail when she said that your opinion on the Tsar would depend on a family or individual's experiences in the 1917 revolution. By 1917 though, most of my grandmother's family had left Latvia and Poland and most of them lived in the United States. Some of them left in the 1880's but a large group of them left in 1896. My great-grandmother was in the 1896 group.

Latvia was a country which would provide access to the sea, something which Russia needed. Prussia (present day Germany) also had interests in Latvia (a buffer against the Russians). Latvia was like a pawn which both countries tried to use to their advantage. Latvia was occupied by troops in both countries at various times.

In 1896 when my great-grandmother left with her family, there were Russian troops in Lativa. I would imagine the Tsar ordered them into Latvia. It was a living nightmare for anyone who lived in Latvia or anyone who lived where these troops were. This is what my grandmother was told by family members who lived in Latvia.

When the Tsar was overthrown, those who controlled the military were even more brutal. They were worse than the Tsar, that's for sure.

[COUNTESS]

Originally Posted by Yekaterina

and you have idea??? you must be very old then. in my family my grandparents and great grandmother always have talked to me and told me stories from the past. they were monarchists and always will be. the russians know that revolution was a big mistake. we had more terror after the tsar was gone. even the enemies of the monarchy admit it. but americans knows it best, right?

Of course, I have no first hand idea. But my mother was born in Russia and she is still alive and she lived under the Tsar and, yes, she is very old, she will be 96 and still is very sharp phyically and mentally. Of course, she, too lived here most of her life, but her family, my grandmother and great aunts, who I was close to, certainly, told me that life under the Tsars was no better than life under the Communists. There was plenty of terror under the Tsars. Both regimes were awful. Look for something in between. For me the revolution was a blessing, because my grandmother took her 3 children, my mother among them and fled and came to the United States. I, Thank the Lord that happened.

[David V]

Originally Posted by nascarlucy

My maternal grandmother's family and extended family came from Latvia and Poland. Al bina hit it right on the nail when she said that your opinion on the Tsar would depend on a family or individual's experiences in the 1917 revolution. By 1917 though, most of my grandmother's family had left Latvia and Poland and most of them lived in the United States. Some of them left in the 1880's but a large group of them left in 1896. My great-grandmother was in the 1896 group.

Latvia was a country which would provide access to the sea, something which Russia needed. Prussia (present day Germany) also had interests in Latvia (a buffer against the Russians). Latvia was like a pawn which both countries tried to use to their advantage. Latvia was occupied by troops in both countries at various times.

In 1896 when my great-grandmother left with her family, there were Russian troops in Lativa. I would imagine the Tsar ordered them into Latvia. It was a living nightmare for anyone who lived in Latvia or anyone who lived where these troops were. This is what my grandmother was told by family members who lived in Latvia.

When the Tsar was overthrown, those who controlled the military were even more brutal. They were worse than the Tsar, that's for sure.

Latvia and Estonia came under Russian rule in the 18th century, although the Baltic German nobility retained their privileges. Poland and Lithuania came under Russian rule by 1795 (including Ukraine and Belarus), other parts of Poland coming under Austrian and Prussian rule too. The Caucasus came under Russian rule fully by the 19th century.

Now Tsarist Russia was a terrible regime, and even attempts to reform were half-hearted at best. Serfdom was abolished in the 19th century, only to be reinstated by Stalin.

Dare I say, the current Putin-led regime in Russia can be described as neo-Tsarist.

[iamtheoneandonly]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

i am not sure what you mean by "Prince Romanov's clan" There are Americans descended from Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich Romanov. I believe they go by the surname Illyinsky and use Romanov (or Romanoff) as a middle name. Could you be more specific or come up with a name?

Well, I saw on telly this Russian gentleman who is called his Highness Prince Nicholas Romanov who created his family association or something. He was disputing about Maria Vladimirovna's claim as the head of the House of Romanov and claimed that he was the rightful head of the Romanov clan.