Members of the Extended Romanov Family, past and present

[Warren]

Warren, is that the same Michael Andrejevitch that was mentioned as being the real head of the Imperial Family, that is if Maria Vladimirovna was excluded from succession?

Yes, he is the eldest son of the eldest son of Grand Duchess Xenia and Grand Duke Alexander.
.

 

[Layla1971]

Yes, he is the eldest son of the eldest son of Grand Duchess Xenia and Grand Duke Alexander.
.

Do you know why he lives here?
An Australian wife or something?

 

[Warren]

Do you know why he lives here?
An Australian wife or something?

All his three marriages took place in Sydney. He's been here for quite a while and maintains a very low profile. He is getting on in years now.
.

 

[Layla1971]

All his three marriages took place in Sydney. He's been here for quite a while and maintains a very low profile. He is getting on in years now.
.

I found out on the web, but then I read it in a post above, that his wives were Esther Murphy, Shirley Grammond and then, Giulia Crespi.

Were they Australian or English?
If you know, what did he do for a career in Australia?

I don't know where to find info on him, when I tried searching it always only listed his mother or his ancestors of the same name.

 

[Warren]

his wives were Esther Murphy, Shirley Grammond and then, Giulia Crespi.
Were they Australian or English? If you know, what did he do for a career in Australia?

The first two were born in Australia (Horsham, Victoria and Brisbane, respectively). That's all I know, except that Prince Michael lives in Double Bay.
Perhaps he crossed paths with Marie Christine von Reibnitz?
.

 

[Layla1971]

Perhaps he crossed paths with Marie Christine von Reibnitz?

Maybe I'm thinking of a different person, but is this the same Marie Christine von Reibnitz that is married to Prince Michael of Kent?
It can't be because they live in England, so if I'm wrong (most likely!), who were you referring to?

 

[Warren]

Maybe I'm thinking of a different person, but is this the same Marie Christine von Reibnitz that is married to Prince Michael of Kent?
It can't be because they live in England, so if I'm wrong (most likely!), who were you referring to?

The one and the same. She lived in Double Bay with her mother and brother for a time. She went to school (Kincoppal?) in Sydney. She was here for a school reunion a couple of years ago. A private visit.
.

 

[pauli_170291]

so there are princes available in russia'???and they ve got titles??jeje

 

[branchg]

so there are princes available in russia'???and they ve got titles??jeje

Very few have any titles, other than morganatic styles granted by Grand Duke Cyril or Grand Duke Vladimir (i.e. HSH Prince Romanovsky-Ilinsky), and most of the family doesn't bother with them.

They are no longer royal because they are all morganatic descendants of imperial dynasts.

 

[pauli_170291]

I don`t know if this is the correct place to ask this question... but i have a doubt regarding the names you can put any royal....there are certain names not included in the ones you can put to the newborn or you can put the future prince..princess or whatever the name you like and want?? thanks..and kisses!

 

[Layla1971]

I don`t know if this is the correct place to ask this question... but i have a doubt regarding the names you can put any royal....there are certain names not included in the ones you can put to the newborn or you can put the future prince..princess or whatever the name you like and want?? thanks..and kisses!

I can't say for sure, but I think the second or at least middle names like Alexandrovna and Nikolaevna (only used for girls I think) are reserved for the Tsar's children or his wife for the name she takes upon conversion.
But this is a guess and I hope other posters will be able to provide more info on the names and when they're allowed to be used.

 

[Jil]

I would like to know more info on the branch of the Romanovs (Romanovsky-Ilyinsky) that reside in Cincinnati, Ohio, U.S.A. I found out about this family when I attended an exhibit of Romanov things at a museum in Cincinnati this past Winter.

Here is what I know about this family.
There was this Prince Dimitri (1891-1942) that was related to the Tsar. I think he was a cousin. Prince Dimitri got involved with helping to murder Rasputin. The Tsar exiled him from Russia. He went to America and married a wealthy lady named, Audrey Emery (1904-1971). Her family had some kind of company in Cincinnati, Ohio. This is how the family got to Ohio. Prince Dimitri and his wife had a son named, Paul Romanovsky-Ilyinsky (1928-2004). The museum showed a video of Paul with his family visiting Russia several years ago. Some how, Paul and his wife later moved to Palm Beach, Florida and became the mayor of that town! Paul had the following children that I believe still live in Cincinnat, OH:
(1) Prince Dimitri Romanovsky-Ilyinsky (1954- )
(2) Princess Paula Maria Romanovsky-Ilyinsky (1956- )
(3) Princess Anna Romanovsky-Ilyinsky (1959- )
(4) Prince Michael Romanovsky-Ilyinsky (1961- )

*It is interesting to note that this family was saved from the fate of the other Romanovs because of the involvement in a crime! I guess you can say in this case that crime did pay!

Here is a link to an article on the death of Paul Romanovsky-Ilyinsky in 2004.

http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/ilyinsky.html

I found an article about one of Prince Paul Romanovsky-Ilyinsky's sons-Prince Michael Philip Romanovsky-Ilyinsky.

The article is titled: "Growing Up Romanov in Cincinnati".
Here is a link to the article:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050220/ENT/502200322/1025/Life

 

[Jil]

Very few have any titles, other than morganatic styles granted by Grand Duke Cyril or Grand Duke Vladimir (i.e. HSH Prince Romanovsky-Ilinsky), and most of the family doesn't bother with them.

They are no longer royal because they are all morganatic descendants of imperial dynasts.

The children of Prince Paul Romanovsky-Ilyinsky live in Cincinnati, Ohio, U.S.A. Paul was the son of Grand Duke Dimitri Pavlovich Romanov (1891-1942) and American Heiress to Emery Industries, Audrey Emery (1904-1971).

Paul Romanovsky-Ilyinsky (1928-2004) lived for many years in Cincinnati, Ohio and then moved to Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A. He was once the Mayor of Palm Beach! He returned to Russia with his family to attend the funeral of the the last Tsar and his family in 1997. His children are:

(1) Dimitry Romanovsky-Ilyinsky (1954- ) married to Martha McDowell.
(2) Paula Maria Romanovsky-Ilyinsky (1956- ) married to Marc Allen Comisal.
(3) Anna Romanovsky-Ilyinsky (1959- ) married to david Wise Glossinger.
(4) Michael Romanovsky-Ilyinsky (1961- ) Married to Paula Maier.

*It is interesting to note that Grand Duke Dimitri Pavolovich Romanov was exiled before the revolution began because of his involvement in the murder of Rasputin. His exile saved his life and the lives of those who came after him! I guess in this case-crime did pay!

**Paula Maria Romanovsky-Ilyinsky does have one son that is single. His name is: Alexander Lee Comisar. He was born in 1983. I believe he lives in Cincinnati.

*The rest of Paula's siblings have female children. Michael does not have any children.

 

[Toledo]

The Russian pro-monarchist movement seems to have with the Romanovs the same problem the Brazilian monarchists had during the attempt to restore the Brazilian Empire in 1996 (?) and put a stop to the military coups that republics often have. In the Braganza-Orleans Brazil, like Russia's Romanovs, the families are so dividided and with so many quarrels is difficult to pick a candidate and get the support of the entire family behind him or her.

We had the same problem in Spain with Franco playing political games with the Borbons and going around shopping for the next King. It was a mess, Juan Carlos and his cousins, the Carlistas, and even the now ennobled Franco family also attempting to get a slice of the future (they even stole the Pardo Palace for themselves, King Juan Carlos kicked them out of that Royal Palace) etc.

What to do? even though I hate and despise Franco for what he did to us in Spain, the best solution is having the Royal hand picked and let everyone else have a temper tantrum. Yelstin was close to it when he declared as the 'official' Romanov Grand Dukes the branch Maria belongs to. And she is extremely outspoken and down to earth, a quality her cousins don't seem to get. If you are running for office you got to go out and make your case be known. She does that well. Yes, she is pushy but she seems to be the only one who is doing something to restore the monarchy as a solution for Russia's political stability. Maybe Puttin, who I read descend from aristocrats himself, can finish the job and hand pick a monarch. A few years ago I would not have believed that the Soviet Union and the Block would disapear, that Cambodia would become an Monarchy again and that Uganda would restore its Kings. So, Putin or the Kremlin getting some royal fever is not that far fetched. After all, having a monarchy is also good for tourism and improves the tabloid business! The more royals around the more for us to discuss about.

Although my own fantasy choice would be Prince Michael of Kent. He does look like a Czarist to the last strand of hair on his beard! And Princess Michael as Czarina? I'm sure she and her sharp tongue will behave in Russia better than in England. And she is quite stricking and beautiful lady, one of the few Royals that looks the part well.

 

[branchg]

It's up to the Russian government and the people whether they wish to offer the throne to any of the current Romanovs. Maria certainly has much goodwill among Orthodox and monarchist Russians as well as the Patriach and it would seem likely she would be the most viable candidate if the monarchy was ever restored. But the likelihood of the monarchy ever being restored is next to zero.

 

[Toledo]

It's up to the Russian government and the people whether they wish to offer the throne to any of the current Romanovs. Maria certainly has much goodwill among Orthodox and monarchist Russians as well as the Patriach and it would seem likely she would be the most viable candidate if the monarchy was ever restored. But the likelihood of the monarchy ever being restored is next to zero.

I know, but we can always hope. When the people get angry about how the government runs and the continuous fight for power they either try new things of go back to a different and old formula, a permanent head of state. After all, it's the elected prime minister the one that does the job in most countries and the President's office is just an uncrowned Royal office in disguise. Besides. who knew the Soviet Union would fall? Stranger things happen

On Maria and her angry cousins, I consider their chauvinistic claim ridiculous in this day and age. She, and any woman in the Romanov family, should have the same dynastic rights of their male siblings. Also, she and her son are being looked down by the other Romanovs because her father married a Bragration princess. The Bragrations were made part of the Russian nobility but they, as a Royal Family are more ancient than the Romanovs and most reigning royal families. It's like today's deposed Royals (for example the Borbons Two-Sicilies) who are seem equal in marriage to any established Royal.
The Bragations were even around even before the Roman Empire fell: House of Bragrationi

 

[Becky24]

Hey, does anyone know who the prince of Russian Royalty was on "Young, Sexy & Royal"?

 

[RussianHistoryBuff]

I like him...so, this is the Young Russian Royalty.
How old is he now...

Kindly, give me an explanation to your like for Georgi? I have never personally thought him capable of ruling anything.

 

[gustave II]

I would add Prince Michel Pavlovitch Romanov, son of Paul Iljinsky (prince Paul Dmitrieyvitch Romanov-Iljinsky +2004, ex-mayor of Palm Beach FL, and son of Grand Duke Dmitri) born in 1960. Married. Divorced. Remarried to Paula Maier in 1965. If Michel has male issues, they would be princes Romanov-Iljinsky of Russia.
~gustave

 

[Raskolnikov]

There is dispute to who is the real heir of the Imperial throne.

Grand Duke Vladimir and his wife (whom some believe has a falsified royal pedigree from Georgia) only had one daughter, Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna. Grand Duke Vladmir issued a decree riding the Imperial House of the Salic Law allowing his daughter to be the heir. Many Russian royals disagree with the Proclamation and consider the Grand Duchess ineligible. Thus the throne would pass to the next highest Prince who was Nicholas Romanov until he passed on.

(1) I must correct this, Prince Nikola is not next, it would be the sons of Prince Paul Ilinsky. They are senior in line to Nikola, or his brother Dimitri (2) As head of the family, (and dispute only came from the branch of Nikola & Dimitri), Kyril, and later Vladmoyr had the right to decide family laws, and or change them. Junior members of the family dont have a say so at all. A good passage reference on Kyril is in Grand Duke Aleksandr's books, and really gives the reader a clear consise reason why the crown goes to Kyril. (3) As to Leonida, she is a Bagration, plain and simple, and she descends from the Tsar's of Georgia, and her position is no different from the family of her husband-dethroned!!! (4) I prefer monarchy, and as a loyal subject of Her Imperial Highness Maria, I support her, but would i like to see her change the house laws--yes. Best wishes

 

[Toledo]

Worse case scenario: the claimant could be decided by a third party person not associated with the Romanovs like the Russian Government. For example, in Spain Franco had his pick between the legitimate heir, the not so legitimate but-close-enough-for-comfort heir and other choices like the Carlists. These last ones became too much and too extremist for him to give them a serious thought. So, he chose the candidate he (Franco), a non royal, was best qualified to be an unifier.
In the case of Romanovs and Russia the dispute could be ended by the government itself declaring this or that claimant as the one officially approved. The other members of the family, just like it happened with the many Spanish Borbons, will have to get used to the idea that someone else has decided for them.
And the disputes will end. Right?

 

[Vecchiolarry]

Choose!!

Hi,

Isn't that how the Romanovs came to the throne in the first place? Didn't a bunch of boyars discard the battling claimants in 1613 and choose the young innocent Michael Roamanov?

I heard a story about how the Spanish got Juan Carlos:
During the christening of Prince Felipe, Queen Victoria Eugenia gathered up Don Juan, Juan Carlos, and Carlos Hugo and surrounded Franco. Carrying Felipe, she said to him< "Here you have my son, my grandson, my great grandson and cousin -- now choose!!!!!".......

Larry

 

[matryoshka]

Hello Everyone, (This is my first post)

To answer your question, the Romanvos came to the throne because Fyodor I died in 1598 without an heir, "ending" the Rurik Dynasty (which had ruled for over 700 years). Tough many successors in the Rurik line were still available, a decision could not be made.... Boris Godunov (of Tatar origin) then convened a zemskiy sobor , a national assembly of boyars, church officials, and commoners, which proclaimed him tsar, although various boyar factions refused to recognize the decision. Subsequently, Muscovy entered a period of continuous chaos. In 1613 a new zemskiy sobor proclaimed the boyar (noble but below princely rank) Mikhail Romanov as tsar, beginning the 300-year reign of the Romanov family.

History has proven that anything can happen in Russia

 

[Toledo]

Is there by chance any single Russian Princes?

That brings up the question, anyone from Russia or that area can tell us if the descendant members of the exiled Russian nobility have moved back to their country? We only hear of Romanovs but what about all the other families that formed the aristocracy?

 

[Mapple]

That brings up the question, anyone from Russia or that area can tell us if the descendant members of the exiled Russian nobility have moved back to their country? We only hear of Romanovs but what about all the other families that formed the aristocracy?

Well, a lot of representatives of our noble families have had no need to move back, as they have lived in theUSSR/Russia all the time. Some of the aristocrats have indeed returned from Europe after 1991, but they were mostly very old people wanting to die in the land of their forefathers.

 

[Toledo]

Thanks Mapple. Current Russian aristocrats are a group I don't hear much about since most of the news revolve on Romanovs and their kin, not on the many other families. Since you are more familiar with what happens in your country, have they formed any organization that represents them, like the aristocrats in other countries? And, do they organize themselves into social or political causes over there?

I don't want to take much of your time, Mapple, but all things Russian is a subject I find very interesting since I read as a kid Pushkin's book The Captain's Daugther and then saw the movie adaptation of it, by Dino De Laurentiss, called The Tempest. I think his wife played Empress Catherine on that movie and Agnes Morehead (better known as Endora from Bewitched) played the Captain's wife killed by Pugachov's mob.

Ever since I had this idea of a magical place of incredible space, beauty and sadness.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Toledo, have you seen "Nicholas and Alexandra" with Janet Suzman as Empress Alexandra? If you haven't, I really recommend it. It's just stunning.

 

[Toledo]

I have the book! I also have (recorded from HBO years ago) the movie Rasputin but I don't have Nicholas and Alexandra. This week I found another classic losely based in a Russian theme, the movie Anastasia with Ingrid Bergman. I'm saving it for some dinner time this week.

Also, I recorded from TV years ago the 4 hour movie version on Catherine the Great with Vanessa Redgrave as Empress Elizabeth. I have not found it on DVD and my VHS copy is very poor. This one in particular was one of the first Russian themed movies actually filmed in the Winter Palace when the Soviet Union was about to collapse. So the film crew was able to go on location while the other movies we mentioned were done in other parts of Europe. I think Anastasia was filmed in Denmark's palaces.

 

[matryoshka]

Well, a lot of representatives of our noble families have had no need to move back, as they have lived in theUSSR/Russia all the time. Some of the aristocrats have indeed returned from Europe after 1991, but they were mostly very old people wanting to die in the land of their forefathers.

Most that could not escape were executed by the 1930s. This is well documented by the family genealogical records compiled by Ferand and Ikonikov. I doubt the people in Russia who claim to be noble actually have been accepted by those who remain in exile. I was told that there are many false princes in post-soviet Russia but I don't live in Russia and I don't know if this is true.... It is true, however, that some very old aristocrats have gone "home" to die, like Prince Alexis N. Obolensky did this March. It is indeed very sad. Despite living in exile there are many aristocratic families that still feel connected to Russia and want to "return".

 

[Mapple]

Most that could not escape were executed by the 1930s. This is well documented by the family genealogical records compiled by Ferand and Ikonikov. I doubt the people in Russia who claim to be noble actually have been accepted by those who remain in exile. I was told that there are many false princes in post-soviet Russia but I don't live in Russia and I don't know if this is true....

A lot of the nobles were indeed the victims of Soviet repressions, but a lot of them survived; some in fact prospered, like Count Alexei Tolstoy (he had dropped his title, of course ). So, we have Golitsyns and Obolenskis still, and we have the Russian Nobility Assembly which vets its member quite thoroughly. Its website is www.nobility.ru ; AFAIK they maintain contact with the exiled nobles.