Members of the Extended Romanov Family, past and present

[Benjamin]

This is not the place to regurgitate the Pauline Laws as they have been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere.

However, considering what the Romanov house laws do say, Maria Vladimirovna and Georgy Mikhailovich have infinitely stronger dynastic status than other Romanov descendants, such as Rostislav.

None of this matters, of course, since it will be a cold day in hell before Russia converts to a monarchical form of government.

Originally Posted by Perislov

Considering that George is the product of an arranged marriage that dissolved within months of his birth. I won't repeat the rumors that have spread around that one in Russia, but it is quite embarrassing though not surprising. Ever wonder why George's father is never actually discussed other than to say that he provided "an heir?" Why did he find his bags thrown out of his own house less than a year after he provided Grand Duke Vladimir with an heir?

The marriage was not dissolved within months of Georgy's birth. His parents separated in 1982 and divorced in 1985. Prince Franz Wilhelm is a private individual and his relationship with his son has been equally private. However, the Prince was well aware of the dynastic nature of his union with the Grand Duchess and that any children that they produced would be raised as Romanovs first and foremost.

[Perislov]

You're correct that it won't matter, but that's the whole point. The house laws are no longer applicable, even if it did. Grand Duke/Tsar Mikhail turned all legal authority over to the provisional government when he was recognized as the new head of the imperial dynasty in 1917.

GD Mikhail specifically turned authority over to the constitutional government without ever abdicating (whether or not it was legal for Nicholas II to pass over his son is a whole other debate). In his statements afterwards, Kirill's statements and claim to the throne came after Mikhail was declared legally dead, acknowledging that he was the legal emporer after Nicholas abdicated. whereas Nicholas and Alexei were never declared legally deceased, or at least until 1991, as far as I know. In his first statement to the public, Kirill also supported the choice of the Duma.

There is also evidence that Nicholas, in fact, did change the laws to surpass the Kirillovich line altogether, according to the memoirs of Alexander Spiridovitch, the Chief of Secret Security Police to the Emperor. These documents are apparently still stowed away in the Russian archives, and I would be willing to wager that if the opportunity arose, then they would be located. Rob Moshein is more familiar with this case than myself.

What I am saying is that Rostislav is likely the best candidate to appease all sides were it to happen. He lives in Russia, speaks the language, has business experience, and doesn't descend from a family line that has ticked off a majority of people, nor offended anyone the way that the Kirillovich line has done. The current claimant has behaved as though she were entitled to the throne, which is not the case. She is a private citizen, and with arguably the Orthodox Church, holds no recognition of such inside the state of Russia. Her supporters always claim that she meets with Putin, but so what! So do the other Romanovs, such as Nicholas Romanovich and his brother. They just don't announce it to the world every time they are acknowledged, and don't request special treatment. That's an endearing trait to a lot of people, though they are way too old to become monarchs now, and both would readily admit it.

Maria does have the strongest claim in regards to Pauline laws, but only through her marriage, which in this day and age, would likely be irrelevant and seen for what they are, especially when they were aware of all that has not been publicized, but is common knowledge for anyone who researches the subject. There are some definite red flags in her lineage, which weren't addressable at the time because those lawmakers couldn't see into the future, predict the fall of the dynasty, or World Wars I and II. The other Romanov branches have been on the right side of history throughout the 20th century, while Maria's and more explicitly George's, have not. Maria supporters should open their eyes to this. It would be a PR disaster.
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[branchg]

The strength of Maria's claim lies in the fact she is the only child of the last undisputed dynast and Head of the Imperial House, not in her marriage. All of the current descendants are morganatic under the Pauline Laws, Maria Vladimirovna included.

She is the surviving senior male-line descendant of Alexander II and the succession of the Romanov Imperial House is with her. The other descendants are not in compliance with the Laws in any interpretation, including the requirement of Orthodoxy.

No one expects the throne to return and she merely expects to be accorded respect and courtesy as Head of the Imperial House, which she is.
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[Perislov]

Right.. like requiring people in her presence to kneel before her and kiss the royal hand.

Local authorities warned in advance: those to whom the guest will see in the morning have to kiss her hand, and may only address the 55-year-old great-great-granddaughter of Alexander II only with the words "Your Highness."

That's part of her personality that ticks so many people off. There is no royal house. It is gone with the provisional government, who was granted authority to make the choice of succession. She is a private citizen. Any claims of royalty are at the mercy of the Russian people. Until that time, she is a lady with the last name of Romanov, just like all the other Romanovs out there (none of whom require hand kissing). She is entitled to absolutely nothing.

Look at it like this: Let's say Nicholas II was not executed; only removed from the throne. A couple of years later, the Bolsheviks are overthrown and the people face the option of reinstalling the tsar. Would Nicholas II, out of power, request that all who seek an audience kneel before and kiss the hand? Not hardly, as he was (by most all accounts) a humble man. Alexandra? I could see it, but that was part of her problem.

The point of the above example gives you an idea why so many people are still attracted to Nicholas II's good qualities; some even going as far as overlooking his negative ones. They see him as a person who could've made the ideal constitutional monarch had he been given the chance. The same could be said about his brother. The same could be said about his younger brother. To put it in layman's terms... they both had class and humility as private citizens, apart from being born of royalty. That's what inspires people to support your cause. Maria lacks that. She doesn't draw people in or inspire outsiders who may even favor a restoration outside of those whom already are in her camp. All she has in her favor is an out of date and still controversial (as was stated above by the statements by General Spirodovich) claim because she is someone's daughter. Birthrights died with the revolution.
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[branchg]

Well, no one can force anyone to address royalty a certain way and Russia is no longer a monarchy, but a republic. So, I hardly see what your point is. Most people do address her as "Your Imperial Highness" as a simple act of courtesy and good manners.

It sounds to me like you have an axe to grind. Whether you accept Maria's position or not, none of the surviving Romanovs will be on a throne anytime soon.

I fully agree Grand Duke Michael declined to assume the throne in 1917 and passed the powers of the monarchy to the Provisional Government, pending a referendum from the Russian people as to what form of government they wished to have. The monarchy ended and the rights of the Romanov Dynasty became defunct.

[AristoCat]

Prince Rostislav Romanov hawking a watch and talking about his attachment to Russia and from what I can see, he's just the type of young man that grandmothers adore.

RT Meets Rostislav Romanov, Descendant of Imperial Dynasty - YouTube

Prince Romanov: Russia my heart & soul (RT EXCLUSIVE) - YouTube

Isn't he in his own way, just adorable. Utterly adorable.

[Artemisia]

It's funny seeing Rostislav with glasses on because he doesn't usually wear them.
A good interview; he is indeed the type grandmothers (and mothers) love.

[Biri]

Rostislav Romanov (b.21 May 1985) [son of late Rostislav Romanov (1938-1999) {himself only son of Prince Rostislav of Russia (1902-1978) by his first wife, Princess Alexandra Galitzine (1905-2006)} & his second wife, Christia Ipsen (b.1949)] & his girlfriend Foteini Georganta became parents of a son, Mikhail, this year.

Sources: Russia
Descendants of King Christian IX of Denmark

[AristoCat]

Say what?

Prince Rostislav has had a child out of wedlock?

Does anyone have a link to this news?

[Al_bina]

Paintings by HIH Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna |Blogs•Spletnik.ru

Olga, Nicholas' II sister | Blogs•Spletnik.ru

[DWC]

The Baker Mamonova Gallery in St Leonards, East Sussex will be exhibiting the art of Prince Rostislav Rostislavovich from 4 May until 18 May.

Russian artist’s paintings at gallery - Hastings and St. Leonards Observer

[adamfg]

I'm so proud that there's a new great-great grandson of Alexander II of Russia is defending his rights in being on of the house heads. With Maria and Nicholas Romanov.
It's his HRH, Rani Romanov, Grand Duke of Russia.

[USCtrojan]

Originally Posted by adamfg

I'm so proud that there's a new great-great grandson of Alexander II of Russia is defending his rights in being on of the house heads. With Maria and Nicholas Romanov.
It's his HRH, Rani Romanov, Grand Duke of Russia.

More information please I have never heard of the grand duke.

[Al_bina]

There are no Grand Dukes of Russia any more.

[adamfg]

Originally Posted by Al_bina

There are no Grand Dukes of Russia any more.

Yes there are. Maria Vladimirovna is a Grand Duchess as well as her son is a Grand Duke.

Descendants of people who were close to the throne such as Alexander II issues, are all supposed to have the titles of Grand Duke or HIH/HRH Grand Duke/Grand Duchess.

[Al_bina]

Anything will do to keep some people happy. The Grand Duke/Duchess title seems to be very cheap now.

[adamfg]

Originally Posted by Al_bina

Anything will do to keep some people happy. The Grand Duke/Duchess title seems to be very cheap now.

I absolutely respect your opinion. But as far as I know that each royal member has roots to the throne he shall have the title Grand Duke. And the great-great grandfather of Rani Romanov is Vladimir Alexandrovich of Russia. (he is from the branch of Andrei Romanov, Grand Duke of Russia ---- Vladimir's son)

[JR76]

Actually ever since Emperor Alexander III amended the house laws in 1886 it's only sons and paternal grandsons of an emperor that bear the title of Grand Duke. All other male dynasts bear the title of Prince of Russia.

[Ceallach]

Originally Posted by adamfg

I'm so proud that there's a new great-great grandson of Alexander II of Russia is defending his rights in being on of the house heads. With Maria and Nicholas Romanov. It's his HRH, Rani Romanov, Grand Duke of Russia.

By new do you mean fake? The wikipedia page for Rani was removed because they think he is fake. He was also added as a claimant on the House of Romanov page and they removed that too.

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ran...Duke_of_Russia

Originally Posted by adamfg

I absolutely respect your opinion. But as far as I know that each royal member has roots to the throne he shall have the title Grand Duke. And the great-great grandfather of Rani Romanov is Vladimir Alexandrovich of Russia. (he is from the branch of Andrei Romanov, Grand Duke of Russia ---- Vladimir's son)

Above he is the great-great grandson of Alexander II, then here Vladimir. So is he Andrei's grandson or great grandson? Andrei had no legitimate heirs or marriages so it is not possible for a descendant of his to be a surprise dynast. He had a morganatic marriage and a son Vladimir Romanovsky-Krasinsky out of wedlock. I do not know if Vladimir had a family. Illegitimate line descendants, who has not been legitimized by a later marriage, have no claim even if all marriages were equal (like Monaco). There would still be in that case many hereditary descendants ahead of him.

Dynastic children and grandchildren in the male line of a tsar were Grand Dukes/Duchesses and great and great-great grandchildren in the male line are Princes/Princesses of Russia. If the family ran out of male dynasts and it passed through the female lines then all dynastic children and grandchildren could be called Grand Duke/Duchess and great and great-great grandchildren are Princes/Princesses of Russia. These descents could be applied accordingly to the Pretender since there is no longer a Tsar which is why Maria and George, who consider themselves dynasts (as do others) use Grand Duchess and Grand Duke, however they are the only ones.

Prince Karl Emich of Leiningen is calling himself Nicholas III which is going too far, especially since he had a morganatic marriage. But the dynastic Leiningens, Prussians and Serbians (Paul's branch) could be Prince/Princesses of Russia if Maria, Kira, Elena, and Olga never renounced their rights. That is it for potential dynastic Russian princes and princess.

Those legitimate non-dynasts who claim there are no dynasts left such as Nicholas, Dimitri, Rostislav, etc also go by Prince/Princess of Russia (even the claimants).

Dynastic male line descendants beyond this, some non-dynastic, and closer non-dynastic ones go by Prince/Princess Romanov/Romanovsky. Traditionally non-dynastic branches have added names such as Romanov-Brasov, Romanov-Ilyinsky, Romanovsky-Iksander or Romanovsky-Krasinsky; or go by a completely different name such as Paley.

If Rani is a descendant of Andrei he could get away with Prince Rani Romanovsky-Krasinsky, but he'd have no claim to Grand Duke/Prince of Russia or the throne.

[CyrilVladisla]

Alexander II regarded his son, George Alexandrovich Romanov Yurievsky as a "true Russian".
In 1881 Alexander remarked of George: "This is a real Russian; in him at least there flows only Russian blood."