Identification of the remains found in 2007: Alexei and Marie (Coble, 2009) - Page 3

Mapple · #41 10-21-2005, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layla1971

I probably adjusted my post when you were replying, but I meant that if it wasn't the Imperial Family that was found at all, it could have changed the position of the Russian government.
I have been to Russia several times, and the people I have met don't exactly hate the idea of a monarchy, if it would be more democractic, and secure than the Imperial monarchy, and the current government.
It could have undermined the government, because people may have thought they may have had another option in direct, and more modern Imperial descendants.
I respect your point of view because you're Russian, and of course, as someone that lives in Russia, you know more than me, a person who only visits your country.
All I'm saying is that there are conspiracy theories, that's all.

Maybe you have a point here, but to suppose that the entire findings were falsified and that several unknown persons were buried among the emperors in 1998 is an extreme conspiracy theory. It does exist in Russia, I can't deny this, but I oughtn't to conceal a fact that it is linked here with the theories of the behind-the-scenes Jewish cabal ruling Russia and mocking the Russian Orhodox faith.

Layla1971 · #42 10-21-2005, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapple

Maybe you have a point here, but to suppose that the entire findings were falsified and that several unknown persons were buried among the emperors in 1998 is an extreme conspiracy theory. It does exist in Russia, I can't deny this, but I oughtn't to conceal a fact that it is linked here with the theories of the behind-the-scenes Jewish cabal ruling Russia and mocking the Russian Orhodox faith.

I know it's an extreme conspiracy theory, but some of it may make a decent argument.
As for the theory about the "Jewish cabal ruling Russia and mocking the Russian Orhodox faith", that you mentioned, I hadn't heard that one.

BeatrixFan · #43 10-21-2005, 05:02 PM

I think that it is ridiculous to believe that anyone, least of all a haemophiliac or two little girls could survive the hail of bullets and bayonets that the Romanovs were subjected to in that Cellar.

There was one story whereby a woman claimed she had seen the Tsarina and the Children on a train. I wish I could remember the rest of that.

There was a woman called Elena who was found in South Africa and her grandson tried to prove she was Anastasia. They said that the bone shape etc matched exactly with photographs of Maria - he refused that and said that she was Anastasia and couldn't be Maria. It made no sense - it was as if he only wanted her to be Anastasia and nobody else.

Mapple · #44 10-21-2005, 05:04 PM

Well, it is indeed a theory that has its adherents in Russia. But if you are inclined to believe the scientists...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layla1971

Personally, I would believe scientists over theories from the west.
...

...and not the conspiracy theorists, then it is the Romanov family members who are buried in St Petersburg, Anastasia among them.

Layla1971 · #45 10-21-2005, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapple

Well, it is indeed a theory that has its adherents in Russia. But if you are inclined to believe the scientists...

...and not the conspiracy theorists, then it is the Romanov family members who are buried in St Petersburg, Anastasia among them.

I like to keep an open mind!
The family of skeletons that were found may have been closely matched in size to those of the Imperial Family, but that doesn't mean it was them.
Considering only adult skeletons have been found, and no children, it could be anyone that was buried, if the DNA tests were manipulated just to close the case.

And as for the cellar, they may never have been there in the first place.
Just a thought.

juliamontague · #46 10-21-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

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.

Huh:o I think my mistake was the first one. I meant they still think that it is Anastasia, while the Russians found out with the head-phot-computer think that it is Maria.

But this dicussion gets stupid

We will never know it!

juliamontague · #47 10-21-2005, 06:10 PM

Why should someone have manipulated the DNA-Tests?? And who?

Doña Metizia · #48 10-21-2005, 09:16 PM

Layla1971: I looked at the link you posted about Anna Anderson & I could not belive how much she resembles Anne-Marie of Greece.

Layla1971 · #49 10-22-2005, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layla1971

Personally, I would believe scientists over theories from the west.

Let me clarify my post. I meant that in terms of skeleton, and skull comparisons the scientists would be correct, but in terms of DNA evidence,and the truth, I don't think that we can ever be 100% sure about it, (not even the scientists themselves).:)

Layla1971 · #50 10-22-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juliemontague

Why should someone have manipulated the DNA-Tests?? And who?

I meant that if the Imperial Family had not really been murdered as history suggests, but the conspiracy theorists oppose, then if the government knew this, they may have wanted to suppress this information to prevent their power from being destablized.
People may have been unhappy with their government enough to think that reinstating the descendants of the Imperial Family (if there were any), under a democratic system, would be better than their current system of government.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doña Metizia

Layla1971: I looked at the link you posted about Anna Anderson & I could not belive how much she resembles Anne-Marie of Greece.

I haven't seen many pictures of Anne-Marie of Greece, so I can't say if I think there are any similarities.
Could you post a picture of her to show the comparison?:)

Mapple · #51 10-22-2005, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layla1971

Let me clarify my post. I meant that in terms of skeleton, and skull comparisons the scientists would be correct, but in terms of DNA evidence,and the truth, I don't think that we can ever be 100% sure about it, (not even the scientists themselves).:)

The comparison of skulls and photographs took place as well in the 1990s. The skulls were identified as belonging to the Imperial family of Russia, the skull of Anastasia being among them.

Layla1971 · #52 10-22-2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapple

The comparison of skulls and photographs took place as well in the 1990s. The skulls were identified as belonging to the Imperial family of Russia, the skull of Anastasia being among them.

So then it would be Maria, and Aleksey still missing, wouldn't it? Any ideas what happened to them?

Mapple · #53 10-22-2005, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layla1971

So then it would be Maria, and Aleksey still missing, wouldn't it? Any ideas what happened to them?

They were burnt while the killers were digging a grave for the rest, according to Yurovsky.

juliamontague · #54 10-22-2005, 02:46 PM

They wanted to burn all the bodies , but most of them didn't catch fire, because they were not long dead.

Layla1971 · #55 10-22-2005, 02:52 PM

I heard something about acid being used to destroy them more quickly. I don't think a fire would have gotten hot enough outside to destroy the skeletons completely. And, if they set the fire inside it would have burnt the house down.

Mapple · #56 10-22-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layla1971

I heard something about acid being used to destroy them more quickly. I don't think a fire would have gotten hot enough outside to destroy the skeletons completely. And, if they set the fire inside it would have burnt the house down.

It is possible to have a fire so heavy that the bones disintegrate, leaving only small shards and pieces. The fire was lit next to the gravesite in the wood and not in the house.

Layla1971 · #57 10-22-2005, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapple

It is possible to have a fire so heavy that the bones disintegrate, leaving only small shards and pieces. The fire was lit next to the gravesite in the wood and not in the house.

I kno the fire wouldn't have been set inside the house, just that I thought the only fire strong enough to make the bones disintegrate would have to be lit in a enclosed space.

Mapple · #58 10-22-2005, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layla1971

I kno the fire wouldn't have been set inside the house, just that I thought the only fire strong enough to make the bones disintegrate would have to be lit in a enclosed space.

No, an enclosed, crematorium-like space is not a prerequisite for such a heavy fire. For example, in India cremations have usually taken place in the open, on the special grounds called ghats.

Layla1971 · #59 10-22-2005, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapple

No, an enclosed, crematorium-like space is not a prerequisite for such a heavy fire. For example, in India cremations have usually taken place in the open, on the special grounds called ghats.

Probably like they did in the times of Ancient Greece, Scandinavia (Vikings), ect.

BeatrixFan · #60 10-22-2005, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Anna Anderson & I could not belive how much she resembles Anne-Marie of Greece

I really have to disagree there! She doesn't really look like Anne-Marie at all IMHO but I know some people see people in someone that others dont (if that makes sense!)

This is Anne-Marie with her husband, King Constantine: