Grigori Efimovich Rasputin (1869-1916) - Page 8

Russophile · #**141** 05-06-2010, 02:03 PM

Oh good Lord I don't expect you to remember everything! Poor Warren has had to correct me many a times due to my Alzheimers!

See again, I don't think it took a rocket scientist for Grigory to figure out that if they went to war, there might be a French revolution in Russia wiping the IF out. So I think he was pretty safe to say what he said. You know, like those gypsy fortune tellers who give you basic information like "You're going on an adventure". And given Alix's obsession with religion and superstition she ate it up.

Vasillisos Markos · #**142** 05-08-2010, 04:43 PM

Do you really believe that Rasputin was that politically astute? Or do you think it was his way of saying to Alix to rein in any members of the aristocracy who were grumbling about him?

Russophile · #**143** 05-10-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

Do you really believe that Rasputin was that politically astute? Or do you think it was his way of saying to Alix to rein in any members of the aristocracy who were grumbling about him?

He heard a lot of things so I dont' think it took much to put 2 and 2 together. Alix shared Nicky's messages with him--I need to remember where I read that piece of info. I am sure, in the letters, there were many instances of "We didn't get the guns and (insert everything needed to fight a war here) we needed."
I also like your idea of Rasputin covertly ordering Alix to reign in her relatives. That makes perfect sense as well.

Maria Romanova · #**144** 06-22-2010, 07:32 PM

plain and simple, he is a creepy creepy man. I am afraid of him (and he is dead) he is just a frightening man. (and I believe he was possessed or was dealing with witch craft or something. No man has power like that or is that evil) I do believe he was using the Tsaritsa through Alexie.

Vasillisos Markos · #**145** 06-23-2010, 05:18 PM

If the story about the attempts to kill him are true, Rasputin certainly seemed to possess, or be possessed, by some incredible power which kept him alive through numerous attempts on his life. It could very well be an evil power or perhaps supernatural.

Maria Romanova · #**146** 06-23-2010, 08:52 PM

I agree, thank you much Vasillisos

Vasillisos Markos · #**147** 06-27-2010, 11:03 AM

I am reading the bibliographical notes in Alexandra: The Last Empress by Carolly Erickson and the author mentions that Zenaida Yussoupov and Grand Duchess Elizabeth, Ella, may have encouraged the murder of Rasputin. For the first time I read that Ella sent a congraulatory telegram after the murder. Does anyone have information on the involvement of these two women?

persian85033 · #**148** 06-27-2010, 08:19 PM

I have actually come across some references that it was actually Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich who came up with the idea and plan to murder Rasputin, not Felix, but that they decided to say it was him to protect Dmitri. Although I think that is quite unlikely.

As to Zenaida and Ella, well, perhaps they thought like it's for 'the greater good'. Perhaps the encouragement was that they were very upset by the fact that Alix was rude and all that to both Zenaida and Ella. After all, Zenaida was Felix's mother, and Ella had been Dmitri's guardian, and Felix was very fond of her, too. But yes, I have read that Ella did send such a telegram to them.

Vasillisos Markos · #**149** 06-27-2010, 10:27 PM

Many of the Russian royals discussed the need to "eliminate" Rasputin, so it is not surprising that almost all rejoiced at the murder. But because of the two men involved, Felix and Dmitri, it appears that Zenaida and Ella, who were close, actively urged them on to commit the crime.

Russophile · #**150** 06-29-2010, 01:02 PM

Page 286 of Warwick's bio. on Ella says she sent a telegram to Zenaide Yussopov stating "My prayers and thoughts are with you all. God bless your dear son for his patriotic act."
The source of this is Felix's autobio. "Lost Splendor."

Vasillisos Markos · #**151** 06-29-2010, 01:04 PM

Thanks. I am reading Lost Splendor now but am only up to Chapter III so far.

Al_bina · #**152** 06-29-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russophile

Page 286 of Warwick's bio. on Ella says she sent a telegram to Zenaide Yussopov stating "My prayers and thoughts are with you all. God bless your dear son for his patriotic act."
The source of this is Felix's autobio. "Lost Splendor."

Citing various correspondence between members of the polite society, Pikul ("The evil power") also mentioned that the Rasputin's murder was viewed as an act that could avert the looming revolution and prompted Nicholas II to take measures to stabilise Russia and to start the much-needed industrialisation process.

pamela18335 · #**153** 06-30-2010, 12:05 AM

You know, it doesn't really matter whether Rasputin was a charlatan, or whether he really was able to influence the course of a number of Alexei's hemophiliac crises. I suspect the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Many have mentioned the hypnotic nature of Rasputin's eyes. It is quite reasonable to theorize that using a form of hypnosis, he was able to mitigate Alexei's pain, fear and anxiety, all of which could have contributed to easing a crisis. As others have mentioned, he certainly could quell Alix's anxiety, and that would also have transmitted to her son. In any case, Alix was convinced that whether Alexei lived or died rested solely in Rasputin's hands (via God, of course!). I'm quite certain that had Alexei been healthy, Rasputin would never have gained entry into the Palace.

Above all else, Alix wanted to preserve the throne for Alexei and see him inherit. It was not an unreasonable hope with respect to Alexei, as her uncle, Prince Leopold, Duke of Albany, also a hemophiliac, lived to be 30, dying in 1884.

One wonders (okay, I wonder

) what might have happened if (1) there hadn't been a revolution and (2) had Alexei grown into adulthood. It would have been most difficult for Nicky and Alix to find a suitable bride for him who would agree to marry the tsarevich given the nature of his health. One thing is certain: Since hemophilia is an X-linked recessive trait, had Alexei had any male issue, none would have been a hemophiliac (unless the mother was also a carrier as Alix had been).

Vasillisos Markos · #**154** 06-30-2010, 12:57 PM

This may be a tad off topic because this thread is devoted to Rasputin but I don't think Alexei would have had any trouble finding a bride. As you point out, his wife would be the one, if she carried the gene, to pass along hemophilia and I'm sure the Russian Royal Family would only agree to a bride who had no history of hemophilia in her family. As for his delicate health, the bride might not like the idea of being widowed but the goal would be to produce heirs.

Russophile · #**155** 06-30-2010, 02:08 PM

Pamela, when I finish Radzinski's book on Rasputin, I'll let you know about his assessment of Father Grigory. I suspect, as well, that it is somewhere in the middle: Some faith, some form of hypnotic power, and some sleight of hand.

pamela18335 · #**156** 06-30-2010, 08:51 PM

Russophile, I hope you are enjoying Radzinski's book. I read it some time ago, but for the life of me, I cannot remember what his conclusions were, so I'll be happy to have you refresh my memory (which is becoming quite sieve-like!).

Russophile · #**157** 07-01-2010, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamela18335

Russophile, I hope you are enjoying Radzinski's book. I read it some time ago, but for the life of me, I cannot remember what his conclusions were, so I'll be happy to have you refresh my memory (which is becoming quite sieve-like!).

I just got back from vacation so I'm still in the middle of "Born to Rule". However! I read Radzinski's "The Last Tsar" and I do know that he (Radzinski) tends to meander around so I have to clear my schedule to get a clear picture of it.

pamela18335 · #**158** 07-01-2010, 05:22 PM

Russophile, hope you had a great vacation!

I enjoyed "Born to Rule", though, if I recall correctly, the author made a few mistakes. I don't go on vacation until September, and right now, I'm going through Amizon to find my vacation reading.

I'm relieved to hear that you find Radzinski a bit scattered...some of his writing (in both his Tsar Nicholas and Rasputin books) seems to me akin to "stream of consciousness" rambling. I, too, found it necessary to focus and concentrate, rather than just being able to read smoothly.

~aaackkkk~ Amazon, not "Amizon"! I can spell, really I can!