Grigori Efimovich Rasputin (1869-1916)

[COUNTESS]

Right, paying for survival was, unfortunately, always a way to do business. So, if you lived in a nation that would murder you or disposess you in a moments notice, you paid. So, yes, they weren't above that taint.

Right, if surviving a government that would kill or diposess you without thought or guilt, paying was a good option. Buying life and limb and buying favors are two different things. Whether he was not anti-semtic is not the point. He was pro graft (Rasputin). What frightened people did to save their lives is another story. No one is above their struggle for life. It didn't say I will try and use this money to "help" people", it said "fine binge". What a noble thought.

[delincolon]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Right, if surviving a government that would kill or diposess you without thought or guilt, paying was a good option. Buying life and limb and buying favors are two different things. Whether he was not anti-semtic is not the point. He was pro graft (Rasputin). What frightened people did to save their lives is another story. No one is above their struggle for life. It didn't say I will try and use this money to "help" people", it said "fine binge". What a noble thought.

Countess - you're absolutely right... bribery was most often the way to get past restrictions. Most of the money that Rasputin took in, he dispersed to poor people in need. Or, many times he used the money to bribe officials to allow someone an education, residence, or life iteself. Yes, I read the 'fine binge' comment in one book. Most others that I read said he was extremely generous with any money, dispersing it.
In fact, many minor functionaries, until the 18th century, were not paid and were expected to live on graft. Unfortunately, the practice continued well past that.

[delincolon]

Lucien-
Your condescending tone and snide remarks certainly befit a royal stereotype. Also, that you make sweeping judgments without investigating what or who you are judging, doesn't speak well for you. It's unfortunate that you opted for arrogance over grace and dignity. So many thought it laughable that the earth could be round, or that some invisible item called an 'atom' could exist, or that the earth could revolve around the sun rather than the other way around. But that's what happens when you fear that investigation could overturn existing concepts. It's only being discovered now that what was once thought to be fact, regarding dinosaurs, is no longer.

Of course, where history exists, much of it is hearsay and everyone has a perspective all their own. Ask any 2 people who witness an incident to describe it and you will get 2 different views. One of my favorite sources, General Alexandre Spiridovitch, Chief of the Tsar's secret police, has been quoted by many as being among the most objective and really had nothing to gain, after the revolution, by taking the unpopular stance of defending Rasputin and noting his generosity. But, that's okay. You should stubbornly stick to what's familiar. It's probably less frightening than changing your ideas about something, even if they're wrong.

The kind and wise (and open minded) Vasillisos had remarked to me that I was unlikely to find any support among those who revere royalty and, of course, he was correct. He responded to me honestly, but with intelligence and dignity - and without judging. On that note, and seeing the wisdom in his comments, I will not be returning to this site. I have too much productive work to do.

[Russophile]

delincolon, it is the way with boards. Just ask My Peter Kurth.

I am sorry you are leaving though, Rasputin has always been a guilty pleasure in studying.

[Tsaritsa]

Delincolon, please read my post on Rasputin at AP Time Machine. Many here have more open minds and I look forward to reading about him from another perspective. All good wishes to you.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by delincolon

Lucien-
Your condescending tone and snide remarks certainly befit a royal stereotype. Also, that you make sweeping judgments without investigating what or who you are judging, doesn't speak well for you. It's unfortunate that you opted for arrogance over grace and dignity. So many thought it laughable that the earth could be round, or that some invisible item called an 'atom' could exist, or that the earth could revolve around the sun rather than the other way around. But that's what happens when you fear that investigation could overturn existing concepts. It's only being discovered now that what was once thought to be fact, regarding dinosaurs, is no longer.

Of course, where history exists, much of it is hearsay and everyone has a perspective all their own. Ask any 2 people who witness an incident to describe it and you will get 2 different views. One of my favorite sources, General Alexandre Spiridovitch, Chief of the Tsar's secret police, has been quoted by many as being among the most objective and really had nothing to gain, after the revolution, by taking the unpopular stance of defending Rasputin and noting his generosity. But, that's okay. You should stubbornly stick to what's familiar. It's probably less frightening than changing your ideas about something, even if they're wrong.

The kind and wise (and open minded) Vasillisos had remarked to me that I was unlikely to find any support among those who revere royalty and, of course, he was correct. He responded to me honestly, but with intelligence and dignity - and without judging. On that note, and seeing the wisdom in his comments, I will not be returning to this site. I have too much productive work to do.

Good.Well,one thing,I do not stick to the familiar as that suits best.Nah,the book I mentioned,Margarita Nelipa's "Rasputin",does away with all that was formerly written on the man in regard to his death.And many do not take to this shocking new evidence,no.But I do,and did immediatly.

Ah,dear Vassilios.You didn't have to drop names tho...He's a dear man,yes,and many see the wisdom in his comments as long as it favours them...old story,people do take to that yes....But as to the people who revere Royalty not supporting any new evidence in regard to them,that is true most of the time,yes,certainly.Just read the Forum and you often find just that.But I for one do not revere them to the fault you point at.To revere them or not is besides the point,and most certainly here,in this thread.

But that you compare your own concoctions with the discovery that the earth IS round and that atoms Do exist...well...you dropped off the plate..You made me start my day with a roar,no no,not just a laughable one,but I thought:" oh look,what humour on an otherwise grey and rainy day.".

On Rasputin's generosity...hmmm,just a few posts down I saw he was in for a binge after receiving 10.000 from a Mr.Rubinstein...He was generous to his booth cabinet to start with,yes...

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Russophile

Lucien, I believe I was lifting weights at the gym too hard with Mr. Russo. Still experiencing numbness in my forefingers.
Alas! The book went back, you only get a certain number of days at the library with which to pick it up--you don't get it, you lose it. Now I have to call it back, however, it is lovely that we have such an extensive library system to be able to get ahold of that book. Mr. Russo would kill me were I to buy yet ANOTHER Romanov book to store in our house. .. . .

Colon, in passing, I am looking at pages 280-281 in Radzinski's work. It looks to me like the Jewish population wasn't above "buying" Rasputin for their own ends. Radzinski quotes him as saying (via Varvarova) "I received 10,000 from Rubinstein today, so we shall have a fine binge."

Oh nah,he wouldn't go to that lenght to kill you would he?..Haha..You could always say it was a gift...but you might have used that before so it would raise an eyebrow...Thank goodness for Libraries!I certainly "Yeay" that!

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by lucien

Oh nah,he wouldn't go to that lenght to kill you would he?..Haha..You could always say it was a gift...but you might have used that before so it would raise an eyebrow...Thank goodness for Libraries!I certainly "Yeay" that!

Hmmmm. . . Russo certainly does have a hefty insurance policy on her person. . . . . . . .




I am curious as to how much money Rasputin got, went through and gave out. Must have drove the people who wished to buy him crazy.

[Kasumi]

From the archive, 29 December 2011: 'I would kill Rasputin again' | From the Guardian | The Guardian
Fifty years ago tonight Gregori Efimovitch Rasputin was done to death in St Petersburg, by a handsome young Oxford graduate, Prince Felix Yussupoff. At the Epinal Studios the French director Robert Hossein is making the first film version of the story that has been authorised by the Prince.

[Russophile]

After Reading The Flight of the Romanovs, there was much speculation and evidence (diaries of GD Dmitri and the other man that was there Purishvevitch??) that GD Dmitri pulled the trigger and not Felix.

[Kasumi]

Purishkevich

[Russophile]

Yes, that's it, thank you!
They said (the authors of Flight of the Romanovs) that everyone pointed the finger at Felix becuase they were hoping Dmitri would become Tsar and he shouldn't have blood on his hands.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Russo my dear,

Do you believe that Felix would take responsibility for something Dmitri did? I understand that it would be wiser for Dmitri not to have been involved in the actual slaying but would Felix say he killed Rasputin to spare Dmitri? On the other hand, Felix had a very high opinion of himself.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

Russo my dear,

Do you believe that Felix would take responsibility for something Dmitri did? I understand that it would be wiser for Dmitri not to have been involved in the actual slaying but would Felix say he killed Rasputin to spare Dmitri? On the other hand, Felix had a very high opinion of himself.

Felix made a high drama of it, did he not?
The Authors of Flight of the Romanovs used the diaries of Purishkevitch and Dmitri's diaries of which they read between the lines. Nobody outright said it, however it makes more sense to me that Dmitri pulled the trigger and not Felix. Poison seemed more Felix's metier after all, don't you think?
And a Happy and Prosperous 2012 to YOU VM!

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by Russophile

Felix made a high drama of it, did he not?
The Authors of Flight of the Romanovs used the diaries of Purishkevitch and Dmitri's diaries of which they read between the lines. Nobody outright said it, however it makes more sense to me that Dmitri pulled the trigger and not Felix. Poison seemed more Felix's metier after all, don't you think?
And a Happy and Prosperous 2012 to YOU VM!

Russo my dear,

You are probably right---poison does seem to be Felix's style for murder most foul. And a very happy and healthy new year to you as well, my dear.

[Grandduchess24]

Felix tried feeding gregory poisoned wine and cakes but he didn't die so after not seeming to die Felix shot Rasputin he then proceeded to try to run but relax shot him outside in the palace courtyard then the prince and grand duke dragged then pushed rasputin's body over the bridge into the Ice covered river.

[Vasillisos Markos]

My dear Grandduchess24,

Yes, it seems from all accounts that it took numerous attempts to take Rasputin down. He managed to survive poison that would have killed several men if the accounts are believeable.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Did someone ask for a rehash of the attempts to kill Rasputin?
Wasn't Felix hailed as a hero for killing Ras? By all or most of Russia, though he did have to flee the country from the Tsar. Do think he really thought killing him would save the Tsar.

[Bensgal]

^Dmitri was sent to the Persian front as his punishment and Felix was kept under house arrest, if I remember correctly, at his estate outside St Petersburg. His wife, Princess Irina, niece of Nicholas II, was allowed to move about freely.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Thanx for the update. I can't remember what I read about the aftermath of the murder of Rasputin. I do recall Felix survived the 1918 massacre's.