Grigori Efimovich Rasputin (1869-1916)

[Russophile]

Delin Colon, have you read Radzinski's book on Rasputin?

[delincolon]

Originally Posted by Russophile

Delin Colon, have you read Radzinski's book on Rasputin?

Of course, I've read Radzinsky. It's in my bibliography. Though he barely touches on the Jewish situation, he, too, says that many Jews were grateful to Rasputin for his help.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

DC, first of all do not make assumptions about me, my age or my education; i have not gone personal with you so Do Not go there with me. From reading your paragraph after paragraph of rants i take it you know everythingyou know what the bad things Rasputin did do and was accussed of doing. Your excuse for it is just "everyone else" was doing it or apparently was doing. I've stated before the hatred towards him spread beyond the aristocracy. Was he a scapegoat yes, but he did not help his situation with the way he treated everyone from government officials to everyday people. His sexual antics, assaults and semi-assaults, some of whom were against the wrong people etc., You just happen to believe this was all made up or that it was no big deal because everyone, especially the hated aristocracy, were acting like that.
In your belief his interfering with politics is ok because it was all for the Jews of Russia. I for one don't believe that, again it might have been part of the reason but not the whole reason. With Rasputin it was a build up of various things; he was not politically savvy so he didn't know how to play the game and as a result he offended and rubbed people the wrong way which prevented his cause due to his behavior. Second, Rasputin wanted to help the oppressed of Russia, including the Jewish population; good for him I admire his courage, but there is a time to play the game of politics blindly and he chose the wrong time! Russia was sinking fast and it needed ministers who could try to alleviate the situation; not a merry go round of people Rasputin just didnt like or as you say didn't believe in his cause. The worse things became in Russia during the last years the main people to blame were Alix AND Rasputin. Both of them together was horrible from a PR standpoint because they were both hated and there was too much secrecy around them. That secrecy was more Alexandra's fault and if she had been honest with people instead of ignoring their concerns things might have been different. Rasputin's prescence would have been explained and perhaps it would make sense to some if not the majority. But still the government who was trying to remain afloat would still not want him involved in it; he and Alexandra just made things worse. He was a great healer who cared about the oppressed, she was a wonderful mother and loving wife; but neither of them was suited for working in or for the government, Nicholas was the Tsar and not even he could do it right. All 3 appear to have had the same problem of not being able to see the bigger picture, especially what was really important at the time in Russia.

Either way I am not going to clutter up this board with the same debate about how good or bad Rasputin was. History will always have different view points on the same events. If you have anything else to add specifically to me feel free to PM. Otherwise I am moving on to other aspects of Rasputin and will leave this specific aspect to you and others. Will look for your book L8s

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Reading N&A by Massie, he is hypothesizing about how Alexei was healed at Spala; anyone have any theories on what exactly happened and how Rasputin pulled it off?

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by delincolon

Of course, I've read Radzinsky. It's in my bibliography. Though he barely touches on the Jewish situation, he, too, says that many Jews were grateful to Rasputin for his help.

I own that book. Might I trouble you to tell me where in the book I may look to find that piece of information? Many thanks!

[COUNTESS]

Edvard Radzinky, Russo?

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

Reading N&A by Massie, he is hypothesizing about how Alexei was healed at Spala; anyone have any theories on what exactly happened and how Rasputin pulled it off?

My dear XeniaCasaraghi,

If memory serves, I think Massie thought the reassuring telegram from Rasputin calmed Alexandra and this in turn calmed Alexis, which may have led to lower blood pressure? and stopped the bleeding. It is clear that mother and son had a close bond and maybe when she was calm, he too settled down. I know my dog picks up on all of my moods immediately.

The power of the mind is amazing. I read a book about miraculous recoveries from cancer and although the authors concluded that there was no one cure, for some people their recovery from terminal cancer was a case of mind over matter.

[Tsaritsa]

I believe that, on certain occasions, a quiet, calm voice can do what science can't. I have used this "trick" on people suffering panic attacks and it has always worked. I imagine that in the same way that stroking an animal can lower bloodpressure, the tone of voice can reduce fear levels. It was probably how Rasputin "managed" Alexei, who in times of crisis must have longed for his presence. Given the faith in which Alexei held him, it may have been enough for his mother to tell him that " Father Grigori says....." for the bleeding to slow down. Did not Pavlov do something similar with dogs?

[delincolon]

Originally Posted by Russophile

I own that book. Might I trouble you to tell me where in the book I may look to find that piece of information? Many thanks!

It's toward the end, where he talks about Simanovitch's escape from Russia.

[Russophile]

@ COUNTESS, yes.
@delincolon Many thanks. Russo has been dealing with a pinched nerve which has made it extremely difficult to drive, let alone type or turn pages in a book.

[delincolon]

Originally Posted by Russophile

@ COUNTESS, yes.
@delincolon Many thanks. Russo has been dealing with a pinched nerve which has made it extremely difficult to drive, let alone type or turn pages in a book.

Russo - please get well soon. I know how painful and incapacitating that can be. All my best wishes.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Russo my dear,

You need a healer like Rasputin! Sorry, could not help myself. It is time for Mr. Russo to step up to the plate and turn the pages of royal biographies for you. I hope you feel better soon.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I think my mother has pinched nerves. And the comment about not being able to drive reminds me of my grandmother, she had horrible arthritis in her hands yet continued to drive; I was young but even I wondered to myself "something is not safe about this situation". Anyway back to Russia, in modern times people who have hemophilia attacks get transfusions, but I wonder if any scientist or doctor has attempted to calm them down with a mere calm voice and nobody panicking to see if it can really cease the bleedings. It does make some sense to me seeing as how the more upset and anxious you are the more your heart pumps blood.

[lucien]

Russo,get well soon!

Back to the topic,and to the point on Rasputin.

Never before a book was published with such astounding detail on the
murder of Grigori Efimovitch Rasputin as "Rasputin" by Margarita Nelipa.

The auteur had access to all original documents,in their original language,ofcourse.And as she masters Russian as her 2nd language,
the documents revealed more then any of the auteurs on the subject had seen let alone researched,before.It goes into minute details on the weapons,bullets and angels,and the treason from within.It is as captivating as it is true.Word for word.Syllable by syllable,No twisting of facts by disney people,or by start-ups who love to give history a twist that never was,nor by treadmill auteurs forced by their publishers to just deliver a load of paper annually with words from hear say and claiming it's a book,and more,claim it's all about facts.....No!This book is the "Bible" on the subject of this thread.

No-one with knowledge can deny it is that,the Book that sets aside anything written before on Grigori Rasputin.

Availeble at van Hoogstraaten,The Hague,the treasure trove next to the Palace.A must for all affeccionados of Russian history of that period.

[Russophile]

Thank you for the well wishes, however, no such luck for Russo. Been to the chiro twice and a massage therapist, back to chiro next week I am sure. I have "The Flight of the Romanovs" All ready to be picked up at the library and cannot get there. . . *sigh*

Xenia, I read in a book, I think it was the Rene Fulop-Miller book Rasputin: The Holy Devil, or Joseph T. Fuhrmann's book Rasputin: A Life; that it was not uncommon in parts of Russia that there were those people who worked with animals possessed a gift of calming the animals down and indeed staunching their blood flow when there was an injury.

Pardon my mistakes and grammer, being now a south paw does not suit Russo.

[delincolon]

Originally Posted by lucien

Russo,get well soon!

Back to the topic,and to the point on Rasputin.

Never before a book was published with such astounding detail on the
murder of Grigori Efimovitch Rasputin as "Rasputin" by Margarita Nelipa.

The auteur had access to all original documents,in their original language,ofcourse.And as she masters Russian as her 2nd language,
the documents revealed more then any of the auteurs on the subject had seen let alone researched,before.It goes into minute details on the weapons,bullets and angels,and the treason from within.It is as captivating as it is true.Word for word.Syllable by syllable,No twisting of facts by disney people,or by start-ups who love to give history a twist that never was,nor by treadmill auteurs forced by their publishers to just deliver a load of paper annually with words from hear say and claiming it's a book,and more,claim it's all about facts.....No!This book is the "Bible" on the subject of this thread.

No-one with knowledge can deny it is that,the Book that sets aside anything written before on Grigori Rasputin.

Availeble at van Hoogstraaten,The Hague,the treasure trove next to the Palace.A must for all affeccionados of Russian history of that period.

Certainly, Nelipa's book is the bible on his death. I have only dealt with his life and my book is well researched (12 years of it), well footnoted, and I've not put any spins on history - only quoted those who were there, as well as many biographers. If you check out the reviews on Amazon, many editors and book reviewers have found it enlightening. Certainly, it's not a popular subject and never has been. People are always reluctant to give up what they've been accustomed to hearing. Information contrary to what they believe to be true creates cognitive dissonance.

[Warren]

As we found when the "Anna Anderson was Anastasia" myth was debunked once and for all in March 2009.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by delincolon

Certainly, Nelipa's book is the bible on his death. I have only dealt with his life and my book is well researched (12 years of it), well footnoted, and I've not put any spins on history - only quoted those who were there, as well as many biographers. If you check out the reviews on Amazon, many editors and book reviewers have found it enlightening. Certainly, it's not a popular subject and never has been. People are always reluctant to give up what they've been accustomed to hearing. Information contrary to what they believe to be true creates cognitive dissonance.

Oh yes,I see.But then those who were there,all gave their own twist to the story,as they'd experienced all of it from their own perception.You didn't have to give more twists,it was already done.But ok,it sells...probably..Not really my taste,nah,pardon me.Hear say alone does not nor will not impress me,there are too many of those already,and certainly not with a claim of wellwrought researce added to that.Well,you've been busy and it kept you of the streets.That's good..

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Russophile

Thank you for the well wishes, however, no such luck for Russo. Been to the chiro twice and a massage therapist, back to chiro next week I am sure. I have "The Flight of the Romanovs" All ready to be picked up at the library and cannot get there. . . *sigh*

Xenia, I read in a book, I think it was the Rene Fulop-Miller book Rasputin: The Holy Devil, or Joseph T. Fuhrmann's book Rasputin: A Life; that it was not uncommon in parts of Russia that there were those people who worked with animals possessed a gift of calming the animals down and indeed staunching their blood flow when there was an injury.

Pardon my mistakes and grammer, being now a south paw does not suit Russo.

Amazing isn't Russo,the "Flight of the Romanovs" have send you into flights to the chiro AND a massage therapist instead....Wow!How on heavens and earth did you get in that position?Just teasing,but I do feel with you poor man.I hope you are close to your samovar for tea,or have good assistance to get around the house? A South paw?Hmm,that too?Most unfortunate.
Get well soon!!

[Russophile]

Lucien, I believe I was lifting weights at the gym too hard with Mr. Russo. Still experiencing numbness in my forefingers.
Alas! The book went back, you only get a certain number of days at the library with which to pick it up--you don't get it, you lose it. Now I have to call it back, however, it is lovely that we have such an extensive library system to be able to get ahold of that book. Mr. Russo would kill me were I to buy yet ANOTHER Romanov book to store in our house. .. . .

Delincolon, in passing, I am looking at pages 280-281 in Radzinski's work. It looks to me like the Jewish population wasn't above "buying" Rasputin for their own ends. Radzinski quotes him as saying (via Varvarova) "I received 10,000 from Rubinstein today, so we shall have a fine binge."