Grand Duke Serge (1857-1905) & Elisaveta Feodorovna, Grand Duchess Serge (1864-1918)

[Velkoknezna Maria]

Alice of Hesse with baby Ella
Ella 1896
Ella with Sergey and Grand Duke Pavel

[Warren]

Posts discussing a book about Grand Duke Serge have been moved to the Romanov thread in the Royal Library.

[dharshana]

I have a thought if the Revolutionaries hadnt killed Sergei would he have had enough power to influence Tsar Nicholas on the state of the country and prevent WWI?

[EmpressRouge]

Originally Posted by dharshana

I have a thought if the Revolutionaries hadnt killed Sergei would he have had enough power to influence Tsar Nicholas on the state of the country and prevent WWI?

Interesting thought but Serge was very conservative, one of the reasons he was targeted for assassination. If he had continued influence over Nicholas, it probably wouldn't have helped Russia move in a new direction.

[Royal Fan]

it may have made it worse :)

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by dharshana

I have a thought if the Revolutionaries hadnt killed Sergei would he have had enough power to influence Tsar Nicholas on the state of the country and prevent WWI?

No. Too many factors and Russia had to support their alliegiances.

[Vasillisos Markos]

I am currently reading Lost Splendor by Felix Yussupov and finished Chapter X. This chapter describes his growing friendship with Grand Duke Dmitri and his acquaintance with Grand Duke Serge and Grand Duchess Elizabeth, whom Felix adored. Felix did not like Serge and writes that Serge often stared at him. Could this be evidence of Serge's suspected homosexuality? It appears Felix was at least bi-sexual and maybe Serge suspected this. I was amused when Felix described that Serge wore corsets and the bones of the garment could be seen through light weight summer clothing.

[Russophile]

Perhaps Serge was not happy with the influence Felix had on Dmitry. Unlike KR, Serge was very proper. One still does not know whether he was gay or not. Russo would like to know as she is a curious cat. Though she suspects that will get her into trouble. . . .

[Cory]

I visited the tomb of Grand Duchess Elisabeth when the tomb was in Jerusalem.A real holy woman indeed...

[Grandduchess24]

Was their marriage unhappy? I just wonder Ella's reaction finding out dimitri murdered rasputin good/bad and supposedly Ella and alix didn't get song because they had different views on Rasputin . I just wonder what would have happened if they had a child I am guessing they wouldnt have hemo for Ella wasn't a carrier unlike alix and Irene , strangely her and Victoria weren't carriers

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Grandduchess24

Was their marriage unhappy? I just wonder Ella's reaction finding out dimitri murdered rasputin good/bad and supposedly Ella and alix didn't get song because they had different views on Rasputin . I just wonder what would have happened if they had a child I am guessing they wouldnt have hemo for Ella wasn't a carrier unlike alix and Irene , strangely her and Victoria weren't carriers

It's hard to say whether they were or not. An excellent book on Ella is Warwick's "Ella: Princess, Saint and Martyr". (Should be at your local library) He writes about how Sergei wanted Ella to look a certain way, fashionable and beautiful. that she did things his way, she makes no mention of being unhappy, from what was written. IMO, things were strained between then however Ella never made a fuss about it, but then again, Ella didn't find her husband buggering the male staff in her bed like Ducky did. There is a portion of the book I found fascinating, it seems Ella had a bit of a crush on a distant relation: Greek Nicky. Also, Paul, Sergei and Ella all lived together after Paul's wife died and that caused tongues to wag as well.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by Grandduchess24

I just wonder what would have happened if they had a child I am guessing they wouldnt have hemo for Ella wasn't a carrier unlike alix and Irene , strangely her and Victoria weren't carriers

My dear Grandduchess,

But how do you know Ella was not a carrier of the hemophilia gene? She and Sergei did not have any children. We know that Victoria, the eldest of the four sisters, did not pass any gene on to her children, but Ella may have been a carrier.

Originally Posted by Russophile

It's hard to say whether they were or not. An excellent book on Ella is Warwick's "Ella: Princess, Saint and Martyr". (Should be at your local library) He writes about how Sergei wanted Ella to look a certain way, fashionable and beautiful. that she did things his way, she makes no mention of being unhappy, from what was written. IMO, things were strained between then however Ella never made a fuss about it, but then again, Ella didn't find her husband buggering the male staff in her bed like Ducky did. There is a portion of the book I found fascinating, it seems Ella had a bit of a crush on a distant relation: Greek Nicky. Also, Paul, Sergei and Ella all lived together after Paul's wife died and that caused tongues to wag as well.

Russo my dear,

Fascinating information. I never knew that Ella had a crush on a member of the Greek royal family. I had always thought, from reading between the lines and from what certain authors implied, that Sergei and Ella had a mostly sexless marriage because many thought he was gay. Ironic huh, if true, in light of what happened between Ducky and Ella's brother. But then he remarried and fathered two children, so who knows?

Your favorite, Marie of Romania, wrote that she thought her Uncle Sergei was so handsome and slim and well-dressed. So maybe his was a marriage of convenience and he was closeted and remained that way. And maybe ibecause of Ella's later conversion to be a nun that a physical relationship was not that important to Ella anyway. We really must get that book about the Hesse sisters, The Four Graces.

[AristoCat]

One thing I do know is that Serge was the most disliked Romanov in the nation and the most disliked family member, something he apparently reveled in. He loved being a target of hatred of the revolutionaries as well, while he hated them as much right back. Even Alexandra was exasperated by Serge's control of Ella as well. As for Rasputin, it was the one thing that broke their relationship apart in the end and they never saw each other alive.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

. But then he remarried and fathered two children, so who knows?

Greg King and penny Wilson will soon know. Their next work is on Uncle Ernie. That I am salivating for! (Especially since his relationship with little Princess Elizabeth--the first daughter who died-- was so close)

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

Your favorite, Marie of Romania, wrote that she thought her Uncle Sergei was so handsome and slim and well-dressed. So maybe his was a marriage of convenience and he was closeted and remained that way. And maybe ibecause of Ella's later conversion to be a nun that a physical relationship was not that important to Ella anyway. We really must get that book about the Hesse sisters, The Four Graces.

See I don't know. Sergei could have been a closet and he could have been just asexual. Didn't Ella burn his diary? I can't remember.
Oh yes! I'll have to go look for that book!!

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I have never been able to find a book on Ella. There is one on Amazon that I really want to read, but I don't know if I want to buy it yet.
I also don't like reading about Ella because she was such a lovely nice person who died such a horrible way; and it makes me get immature and scream "it's not fair"!
My local library sux, best book on the last years of Imperial Russia is Nicholas and Alexandra.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

I have never been able to find a book on Ella. There is one on Amazon that I really want to read, but I don't know if I want to buy it yet.
I also don't like reading about Ella because she was such a lovely nice person who died such a horrible way; and it makes me get immature and scream "it's not fair"!
My local library sux, best book on the last years of Imperial Russia is Nicholas and Alexandra.

It's kinda like the Manson murders, Honey, you just can't help but look.
Here's a link to Amazon and the Warwick book.
Amazon.com: Ella: Princess, Saint and Martyr (9780470870631): Christopher Warwick: Books
The thing I find most interesting about it is that Marie the Younger painted Ella in such a bad light especially when it came to her marriage though Warwick had access to archives of letters Marie and Willy wrote to each other. She called him Darling willy. And Ella paid for Marie's palace in Sweden as well. Not a bad deal for being such a witch of a guardian, I'd say!

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I found the Warwick book at my old Univ. YAY! Should probably skip the end though. I was looking at a bunch of books today so I don't remember the title of this book, but it had pictures of Elizabeth's body and another person she died with.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

I found the Warwick book at my old Univ. YAY! Should probably skip the end though. I was looking at a bunch of books today so I don't remember the title of this book, but it had pictures of Elizabeth's body and another person she died with.

That would be Sister Barbara (I believe the Russians pronounce and spell it Varvara.) she was devoted to Ella.

[Brazilian_Empress]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

You are all correct. What I would like to know, is what did she see in Sergei. Some say he was a homosexual, that I don't know. But he was not noted as being a nice person. Grand Duchess Xenia's husband Sandro, Alexander Mikhilavich, said he could think of no redeeming feature of Sergei. He was disliked by many of his family, least of all the public. Ella was charming, gay, beautiful and, I think, could have made a better marriage. I am just asking opinion, as none of us know what she really thought.

We really don't know if she could be happiest with the kaiser. Considering his behavior and personality, is hard to believe, but who knows?

KR have 9 children and is (now) a very known homosexual. I think Ella had some fertility problems.

[Brazilian_Empress]

Originally Posted by Marengo

[Queen Victoria's] dislike for the Romanovs didn't prevent 3 of her grand daughters from marrying a Russian.

Three? I just remember Ella and Alix. Who was the third?
.