Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich (1891-1941)

[Vasillisos Markos]

I read a biographical essay about Dmitri's sister, Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna. It said that she never loved being around children and that the only person she truly loved (but not in a romantic sense) was Dmitri. So when she died, her son arranged to have both brother and sister interred on the grounds of Schloss Mainau. This place is gorgeous and here is a link showing some photographs.
schloss mainau - Google Search

From those who read about Dmitri and Marie, is there any reason given for her distaste for children?

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

From those who read about Dmitri and Marie, is there any reason given for her distaste for children?

Possibly the way Serge and Ella raised them??
So it was rather good her ex husband took the child Lennart and that the second one died? (Horrible to say, however she said she didn't like children. . .)

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by Russophile

Possibly the way Serge and Ella raised them??
So it was rather good her ex husband took the child Lennart and that the second one died? (Horrible to say, however she said she didn't like children. . .)

Russo dear,

You may be right. The effects of child rearing by the foster parents, coupled with the death of Marie's mother and the absence of her father, might have contributed to an abhorrence for children.

On the other hand, I was reading a biography of Paul I, who was taken away from his mother and raised by Tsarina Elizabeth Petrovna, but essentially abandoned and neglected by both women. It appears that when Paul married and had children, his children remembered him as being tender and nuturing, at least the ones who were not raised by Catherine the Great. Paul is an example of one who overcame a troubled childhood.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

Paul is an example of one who overcame a troubled childhood.

Uh. .. . okay

(Russo remembers Paul as being a despot and killed by his own troops. . .)

[Vasillisos Markos]

Russo dear,

I am not advocating for Paul's abilities as Tsar -- I was pointing out Paul's relationship with his children as an example of one who was neglected in his youth but still managed to have a decent relationship with his children. We were discussing Grand Duchess Marie's dislike of children, were we not?

Seriously, there were few Romanov who were not despots. Paul just happened to go too far and was killed for his efforts.

[Russophile]

You nkow, I haven't read much on the relationship he had with his children. However, I did read his second marriage was quite happy.

[Grandduchess24]

Was he really the murderer if rasputin?
Was was he a homosexual ?
Apparently in later life he had a romance with coco Chanel and was once engaged to grand duchess Olga nikolaievna but what was OTMAA's relationship with dmitri because apparently OTM and A had a crush in him.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Grandduchess24

Was he really the murderer if rasputin? .

He didn't literally pull the trigger however he was a co-conspirator. See Yusoppov's Lost Splendor for his eyewitness account.

Originally Posted by Grandduchess24

Was was he a homosexual ?

Nothing I've read comes out and actually SAYS that. He certainly hung out with Felix who was (though Felix obviously did his duty by his wife hence the child, Princess Irina.) and there were many rumors about it which would lead one to think he was bi-sexual. Because of these rumors the Empress did not look kindly upon him.

Originally Posted by Grandduchess24

Apparently in later life he had a romance with coco Chanel

This is true. Coco was also seeing Stravinski who threatened to leave his wife for her fueld by the gossipy Jose Maria Sert ( aka Jo-jo). GDDmitri's sister Marie also worked for Chanel at one time.

Originally Posted by Grandduchess24

and was once engaged to grand duchess Olga nikolaievna but what was OTMAA's relationship with dmitri because apparently OTM and A had a crush in him.

I believe there were talks between the branches of the family and yes, the girls did have a crush on him, however he had a penchant for married women. See the Crawfords: Michael and Natasha. Dmitri was head over heels for GDMichael's wife. They called him "Lily of the valley."

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by Grandduchess24

Was he really the murderer if rasputin?
Was was he a homosexual ?
Apparently in later life he had a romance with coco Chanel and was once engaged to grand duchess Olga nikolaievna but what was OTMAA's relationship with dmitri because apparently OTM and A had a crush in him.

I believe the entire royal family was very fond of Dmitri and the Tsar and Tsarina often treated him like a son; thus, they were very disappointed, not to say outraged, in his involvement with the death of Rasputin. Consequently, Dmitri was banished from Russia, which in the end saved his life because he was absent when the Revolution started.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Anyone know of Dmitri's relationship with Queen Marie of Romania? I saw a you tube clip on a thread devoted to her. The clip was scenes from Marie's funeral and it shows Dmitri in attendance. I assume they were related through her mother but wondered if they had a special friendship.

[Cory]

Dimitri knew Missy but his sister was closer to the Romanian Queen.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Cory

Dimitri knew Missy but his sister was closer to the Romanian Queen.

Can you cite references please? I have GD Marie's book Education of a Princess and nothing is mentioned of that. In "Born to Rule" it mentions nothing of their relationship either. I read Queen Marie's auto biography and there is no mention of GD Dmitry or Marie in it.
Thanks!

[Cory]

I do not remember where I read about it.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by Cory

I do not remember where I read about it.

My dear Cory,

Forgive me if I am wrong but could you possibly be confusing Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna with Grand Duchess Marie Kirilnovna, the daughter of Queen Marie's sister, Victoria Melita, who divorced her first husband and then married Grand Duke Cyril? In the link dear Russo provided me, I read an excerpt from a magazine in which Queen Marie of Romania was the subject. In the story, it mentions that her niece Marie, also known as Masha, was visiting her at Sinaia. Could this be the Marie who was close to Queen Marie?

[Cory]

I was speaking about Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Cory

I was speaking about Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna.

Like VM siad, they both were known as Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna. Miechen was known as The Elder and Marie was known as The Younger.


Duchess Marie of Mecklenburg-Schwerin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Miechen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_D...sia_(1890-1958)
Dmitry's sister.

[Cory]

Missy knew both of them.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos

Anyone know of Dmitri's relationship with Queen Marie of Romania?.

There is just the one mention of GD Dimitri in Hanna Pakula's "The Last Romantic" [paperback page 311]. It relates to Grand Duke Kirill's proclamation of himself as "Guardian of the Throne" and Dimitri is named by Pakula as a possible claimant in the eyes of some Russian emigres. That's it.

As to Dimitri's sister, Grand Duchess Marie [Maria Pavlova the Younger], she gets a few mentions but most relate to her observations of Queen Marie rather than the other way round. However, "To her credit [Queen] Marie did not forget less fortunate relatives in her moment of glory. She sent Joe Boyle into Russia twice to rescue the surviving Romanovs, and in the case of Grand Duchess Marie, the Queen offered her and her husband [Prince Poutiatine] a home in Romania." [p271]

When Queen Marie was invited to visit Paris in 1919 she requested that GD Marie accompany her, and thence to England. When the British government made it known that she [GD Marie] would not be welcome at Court, the Romanian government denied the Queen's request. "Marie broke down in tears of anger, telling Barbo Stirbey that even "if all the world meant to behave like selfish beasts," she would never deny her exiled Russian relatives; "it is not in my nature to behave shabbily or like a coward. I simply cannot & will not do so." [p271]

In 1924 Ferdinand and Marie visited Paris. While there "The Queen took time from parades and state luncheons to visit the House of Chanel with her former houseguest, the young Russian Grand Duchess Marie." [p328]

Of relevance to nothing...
Ferdinand and Marie continued on to England. [p329:] "Until this visit, Marie had always considered Queen Mary stiff in personality and dress, but was now impressed with her 'magnificent and monumental' style." Quite.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Warren

In 1924 Ferdinand and Marie visited Paris. While there "The Queen took time from parades and state luncheons to visit the House of Chanel with her former houseguest, the young Russian Grand Duchess Marie." [p328]

Warren was this when Chanel went thorugh her Russian phase? I remember Marie the younger worked for her for a time. Then, according to Chanel, Marie wanted more money and *poof* Chanel was out of her Russian phase and onto something else.

[Warren]

Queen Marie's Paris visit was in April 1924.
Coco Chanel's fashion phases are outside my ambit. Lady Gaga however...