Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna: June 2008-

[Marengo]

Welcome to part 3 of the Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna thread.

Since any discussion of the Headship of the Romanov dynasty or its restoration necessarily involves the Grand Duchess, this thread is the appropriate place for such issues as well as current news on the Grand Duchess herself.

The previous thread can be found here.

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[Benjamin]

Russian Imperial House will be guided by Church on royal remains
24 Jun 2008
The Russian Royal Family will be guided by the Russian Orthodox Church's position on the identity of the alleged remains of two members of the Royal Family discovered near Yekaterinburg in the summer of 2007, Alexander Zakatov, the head of the Russian Imperial House's chancellery, told Interfax on Tuesday...
Rest of article can be found here.
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Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna to join events marking tsar's execution in Russia in July
25 Jun 2008
Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, the head of the Russian Imperial House, will visit Russia in July to attend events marking 90 years since Tsar Nicholas II and his family were executed.
"The Grand Duchess will visit Moscow, Yekaterinburg and Alapayevsk. The visit is to begin on July 14," Alexander Zakatov, the head of the Russian Imperial House's chancellery, told Interfax on Wednesday...
Rest of article can be found here.

[Michael HR]

Why does Princess Maria Romonova not take her own stand on the remains that DNA show are those of the Imperial Family and follow the Church who state they are not for some reason that I do not quite understand.

If DNA shows a match why argue against this match?

[bbb]

why is she referred to as a Grand Duchess, she is not the child or the grandchild of a Tsar. She is a Princess. (for some reason i find it very annoying when they style her title this way) she isn't going to go against the church, it might stop giving support for her unsupportable claims. Isn't her immediate family the only ones that consider her "the head" of the Imperial house, none of the other Romanoff's giver her this position? There are many Romanoff princes, but i consider the closest claims Prince Rostislav, the grandson of Grand Duchess Xenia or the senior member of the family Prince Nicholas the great-great-grandson of Tsar Nicholas I, the rightful claimants.

From my understanding, Kyril claim is flawed for many reasons, he was the son of a marriage not recognised by the romanoffs (his mother was not Russian Orthodox until after he was born) his own marriage was equally unacceptable for the same reason. He didn't marry a princess from a reigning royal family, instead of divorced woman with a teenage daughter. And finally his treasonous act of turning his back on his birthright and turning "red" while Commandant over the palace guard at tsarskoe selo while guarding the royal family, leading his men through the streets under a red flag. UNFORGIVABLE.

[Benjamin]

Grand Duchess Maria Wladimirovna is a Grand Duchess of Russia by fact of being the daughter of the late Grand Duke Wladimir, former Head of the Imperial House of Romanov and thus de-jure Tsar.

At present, there are no other dynastic Romanovs excepting the Grand Duchess Maria and her only child, Grand Duke George.

I, for one, find it very annoying when certain members of the Romanov Family Association are referred to as Prince/Princess Romanov when such titles are assumed and totally without legal foundation. Oh well

The marriage of Grand Duke Wladimir Alexandrovich and Princess Marie of Mecklenburg-Schwerin was indeed approved (recognized as equal) by Emperor Alexander II on 16 Aug 1874 (see here). This is a fact. Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna converted to the Orthodox faith ca Apr 1908 (see here). This, too, is a fact.

The union of Grand Duke Kirill Wladimirovich and Princess Victoria Melita of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha was recognized by Emperor Nicholas II on 15 Jul 1907 (see here). This is a fact. Victoria Melita had converted to Orthodoxy in 1907. This, too, is a fact. The three children born of this marriage were styled HH Prince/Princesses of Russia until the succession of their father to the Imperial Throne whereupon they became HIH Grand Duke/Grand Duchesses of Russia (see here). This is a fact as well.

Upon the death of his father in 1938, Grand Duke Wladimir Kirillovich became the new Head of the Imperial House and de-jure Emperor of all Russias (see here). His succession was attested to by the next five Romanovs in the line of succession (see here).

In 1946, Grand Duke Wladimir issued a decree which confirmed the status of the Royal House of Bagration (see here). This step was taken to assure the father of Infanta Mercedes of Spain that her marriage with Prince George Bagration of Moukhransky would indeed be equal.

Two years later, Grand Duke Wladimir contracted an equal marriage with HRH Princess Leonida Bagration of Moukhransky (already an Orthodox and the sister of the aforementioned Prince George). The decree of the Grand Duke regarding his nuptials can be found here. As you can see, the bride of Wladimir became HIH Grand Duchess Leonida.

And, in 1953, the couple's only child arrived, Grand Duchess Maria Wladimirovna. Her father's announcement of her birth and confirmation of her Grand Ducal rank can be found here.

By the way, the Russian succession has been quite thoroughly discussed in the earlier two threads on Maria Vladimirovna.

[Michael HR]

Benjamin we would argue for years to come on this issue. You have your views and I mine and they will never meet. The fact is it does not matter as there is no dynasty, no throne and no Crown anymore and the chances of it coming back are remote, sadly. It would be up to the Russian people to decide if they want the Crown restored and who would be the person to wear it and not for one perosn to dictate to an entire country who is to be their head as Princess Maria tends to do.

[Benjamin]

Dear Michael_HR,
Sorry for the confusion, but I was responding to bbb's query as to why Maria Vladimirovna is a Grand Duchess of Russia.

[Benjamin]

On 16 Jul 2008, Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna was interviewed by Al Gurnov of RussiaToday

YouTube - Russian Imperial Family

Source: RussiaToday : Spotlight : Russian Imperial Family

[BeatrixFan]

Woooo!! I love love love this! I've been waiting for this for ages. It's so fabulous to hear Maria speak. And her voice is so beautiful. I love it. Thankyou for finding this Benjamin.

[Benjamin]

Haha you are very welcome! Stumbling across it made my day . The Grand Duchess is one of my favorite royals (as if that wasn't obvious).

[BeatrixFan]

Mine too. After Camilla, Maria's my favourite. I just think she shows just class and elegance and she so obviously cares about Russia.

[Al_bina]

Benjamin,
Thanks for the clip !
Given the fact I have never heard Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna speaking, I have to say that she has got a very harsh voice. Additionally, she gesticulated too much. I like her accent though.

[Benjamin]

My pleasure, Al_bina !

Russian speakers might be interested in a shorter interview (also from 16 Jul 2008) which the Grand Duchess gave to Konstantin Eggert of the BBC Russian Service.

[Al_bina]

Thanks for the Russian short version of Grand Duchess' interview! Her Russian has got very foreign sounding (i.e., intonation), which is not so surprising.

[Benjamin]

Maria Vladimirovna Visits Durasov Palace

YouTube - HIH GD Maria Vladimirovna Visits Durasov Palace

[branchg]

In reality, the dynasty ended with Vladimir's death since he was the last surviving dynast and de-jure Tsar who unquestionably was born of an equal marriage under the Pauline Laws. The succession could arguably have now passed through his sister, Kira, to the Hohenzollern dynasty.

However, Vladimir ruled the Bagrations were of royal rank as Head of the House and prior to his marriage to Leonida. Given that point and his de-jure right to interpret the House Laws, the matter was closed and Maria is his only heir.

She is recognized as the Head of the House by the Russian Government and most of the European royal houses.

[Michael HR]

I thought only the Spanish Royal house accepted Maria's claim and was not aware anyone else did.

I have always taken GD Michael's view that it is a matter for the Russian people to decide if they want a Tsar and who that Tsar is.

[BeatrixFan]

Whats becoming very clear is that for a long time, Russians haven't considered the monarchy eligible for restoration because of the confusion over the heir. Now however, it seems that they have decided Maria is the best girl for the job and she seems to be enjoying her new status. It may be subtle, but notice how she's being invited to visit places in Russia. When she does, she's treated as if she were a reigning Royal. People bow and curtsey and call her "Imperial Highness" and she's called "Head of the Imperial House" by the media who cover her activities. Thats extremely important to any restoration cause because it means that for those Russians not in touch with their history, Maria becomes the face of the Romanovs. I think this is just what HIH deserves - she's worked very hard for this.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Michael HR

I have always taken GD Michael's view that it is a matter for the Russian people to decide if they want a Tsar and who that Tsar is.

That is the reality. In fact, it could be argued that Grand Duke Michael effectively transferred his sovereign powers as Tsar to the successive leadership at the time (the Provisional Government), pending a referendum on the dynasty's future. But he did not abdicate or renounce his family's claim, so the matter remains in the hands of the Russian people.

Maria does a very good job as Head of the Imperial House and is certainly upholding the dynasty's traditions. She is a highly intelligent woman with a strong sense of her duty.

[Menarue]

That is the first time I have heard the Grand Duchess speak, and my first impression is that I like her very much. She goes staight into my favourite royals list.