Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna: June 2008-

[Marc23]

Originally Posted by Warren

Check out the Grand Duke Georgi thread and all will be revealed.

Thank you Warren,I did :)

[AristoCat]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

Given that her Orthodox heir is dating a Catholic commoner, it would be fair to say that Mama Maria is not nearly as overbearing as many like to portray her.

Or he is just brushing aside her objections to his relationship choices.

[Benjamin]

Statement from 1 March 2012:

An Address to the Russian People from the Head of the Russian Imperial House, Her Imperial Highness the Grand Duchess Maria of Russia, Regarding the Celebration of the 400-th Anniversary of the End of the Time of Troubles and the Restoration of the Russian State

[AristoCat]

I wonder, how do you guys think she would cope if she were in the end denied her pretensions and also her son were brushed aside?

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by AristoCat

I wonder, how do you guys think she would cope if she were in the end denied her pretensions and also her son were brushed aside?

Probably be in denial.

[AristoCat]

I honestly think that the Vladimir branch has been disgusting in their addiction to power and pushing people around. DUring the Revolution Cyril was quick enough to pledge alligance and then desert Alexandra and the other grand duchesses. It strikes me as chilling that all of them were so determined to push Nicholas aside and then take over themselves. Now Maria is doing the same more flagarantly.

[AristoCat]

Heh, for a while and hten reality would dawn on her, sending ehr into a form of serious shock. Then she would have to endure the constant grins of the rest of the ROmanovs in watching her plans and determination fall to pieces and then she would spend the church service praying for the wedding to be stopped and spend the reception seething in a fine rage.

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by AristoCat

Heh, for a while and hten reality would dawn on her, sending ehr into a form of serious shock. Then she would have to endure the constant grins of the rest of the ROmanovs in watching her plans and determination fall to pieces and then she would spend the church service praying for the wedding to be stopped and spend the reception seething in a fine rage.

LOL, she would be like a friend of mine who said she knew her marriage was in trouble when she saw that the grooms mother came to the wedding dressed in full mourning clothes including covering her face with a black veil.

[Al_bina]

The recent statement is odd. What was the reason for making it?

[Alexey 1904]

I haven't a clue, Al bina. Maybe she's giving up her plan for a restoration of monarchy and going to live in Spain full time? Or maybe, she's just letting the monarchists of Russia know all about the 400 years of Romanovs.

[branchg]

The Vladimirovchi have always been ambitious and haughty, but the history of the House is not pretty or honourable. Several Tsar/Tsarinas came to power from military coups and murder of their relatives.

[AristoCat]

True, the Romanovs have been an unusually fractious royal clan.

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by AristoCat

True, the Romanovs have been an unusually fractious royal clan.

And I wonder where that came from. Certainly not from being "Russian" as they didn't have that much Russian blood. Paul I. eg was the son of a Half-Russian Half-German (Anna, daughter of Peter the Great and Catherine I.) who had married a German and of a German mother and who after him married someone with Russian blood? So IMHO Peter the Great was the last who could claim Russian blood. But that didn't help the family from behaving as if they were all born in the deepest barbary.

[AristoCat]

I do too; only recently have there been a faction that has been so united (under the headship of Prince Nicholas) and Maria/Georgi on the other side. I think taht the reveolution and losing three fourths of their relations finally woke them up to the importance of family and unity. Now Maria is constantly grubbing for position and influence all she can, while the rest of the Romanovs are sick and tired of her and of the idea of being a reigning RF.

[TomBert]

I can understand the ambitions of Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna. There she was with three sons within spitting distance of the Throne, while the occupant of said Throne was on the path to self destruction. It seems quite natural that by 1916 this branch of the family saw themselves as a viable alternative to the appalling incompetency of Nicholas and Alexandra. If I was Maria Pavlovna I am sure I too would have explored options for getting all political power out of the hands of the Empress. Desperate times call for desperate measures. But it was probably too late for any branch of the family to avoid the imminent catastrophe.

Post 1917/1918 it was simply a dynastic fact that Kyril was Head of the Imperial House. He and his successors have taken the view that they have a certain duty to maintain aspects of their heritage, just like any number of non-reigning houses. If the rest of the family does not agree, as they obviously do not, so be it.

What I do not understand is the contempt and ridicule Maria Vladimirovna has heaped upon her in places like these forums for simply doing her duty as she sees it. I greatly admire her and her wonderfully old fashioned and eccentric ways (proclamations, "signed by her own hand", always bring a smile to may face). She brings a larger than life splash of colour to the world of Russian monarchism. If it really is a lost cause, what harm is she doing and who is she hurting?

[AristoCat]

There she was with three sons within spitting distance of the Throne, while the occupant of said Throne was on the path to self destruction. It seems quite natural that by 1916 this branch of the family saw themselves as a viable alternative to the appalling incompetency of Nicholas and Alexandra.

I understand, but for Cyril to desert leaving the Imperial family unguraded and then declaring himself head of the house before Nicholas' body was even cold and with the Dowager Empress still living is disgusting. The minute Marie was dead, he immediately began demanding the headship and pretty much antagonized the entire Romanov family and even now, Maria is denounincg the rest of the Romanovs and determined ot push that claim and shoving the rest of them out, including Rostislav who is a more direct descendant than Maria and Georgi could ever hope to be.

[AristoCat]

I affirm my belief that legitimate hereditary monarchy is the only form of government that is divinely ordained, and I am convinced that it is compatible with any age, including our own, and could be suitable for and useful to our multi-national country.

Say that to an American politician or French citizen and I am more than sure that she will get an earful about monarchy.

At the same time, I understand that, right now and for the foreseeable future, the restoration of the Monarchy is premature, and I categorically reject any possibility of a Restoration without the consent of the People. Only the free, informed, legally-formulated, and all-national expression of the will of the People could authorize a rebirth of the monarchy that existed in Russia between 862 and 1917.

It's not a choice of hers to make.

But those who ascribe to us a desire for power are deeply mistaken

Yeah, sure, since she's the one who has been seeking to dominate the rest of the Romanovs and go figure, she ends up suddenly going all pious. Her father sold the Imperial family out, her father has actively worked to maintain a sort of status with the Russian governemnt and so has Maria merrily denounced the rest of the Romanovs to the Russian public and I am sure that she would gladly pitch all of them off a cliff to protect her son's 'rights.'

[Benjamin]

How did Maria's father do anything?

The Russian Empire was all but kaput when Grand Duke Vladimir was born, and the Soviet Union did not end until one year before his death. To say Vladimir actively worked to maintain a status with the Russian government, or that he sold the Imperial Family out (when for a good portion of his life he was the only dynastic member, besides, in his view, his daughter), is untrue and just ridiculous.

[AristoCat]

I was talking about Cyril, not Vladimir.

[TomBert]

Grand Duke Kyril did not demand the headship of the Imperial House, he inherited it. He also waited until 1924 to declare himself Head of the Imperial House (and assumed the title of Emperor; an unnecessary move I think). Six years after the death of Nicholas II, so I think it safe to assume that the late Emperor's body was well and truly cold by then. It was also four years before the death of the Dowager Empress, not a minute after. Call me old fashioned, but I think it would be a good idea to get the facts right before before condemning someone's actions as "disgusting".

As to Kyril's choices in 1917? Perhaps he could, or should, have behaved differently. But they were tumultuous times and who knows how any of us would have acted. Ultimately it is not relevant to Kyril's inheritance. Abandoning the Empress may have been a cowardly act, but it was not an act that could deprive Kyril of his place in the succession.

I would be interested to see evidence of Grand Duchess Maria "denouncing" the rest of the family. As far as I am aware she simply states the facts as she sees them; her male relatives excluded themselves as dynasts, end of story. At least she is never rude like Nicholas Romanovich with his comments about his "fat cousin" in Madrid. He may (or may not) be a Prince, but he is certainly not a gentleman.

As for Rostislav, well good luck to him. If all you are interested in is someone called Romanoff as the representative of a family association, he could be your man. But Rostislav's descent from Grand Duchess Xenia is irrelevant. He is a Romanoff because he is descended from Nicholas I, not Alexander III.