Engagement of Grand Duke George Mikhailovich of Russia & Nob. Rebecca Bettarini


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Heavs said:
Interesting. Perhaps it is because of her insistence that she and her son are the only correct heirs under the Pauline Laws? If she gives her daughter in law HIH when she isn't of "equal birth" she's abandoning that.
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That's probably it but with her son contracting a morganatic marriage in contradiction to the Pauline laws the claim of the Vladimirovich line would end with Maria anyway.
 
JR76 said:
That's probably it but with her son contracting a morganatic marriage in contradiction to the Pauline laws the claim of the Vladimirovich line would end with Maria anyway.
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True. I suppose I admire her putting her money where her mouth is and sticking with what she's been saying all her life. Many people, including me, assumed she'd change her tune if/when her son got engaged to Rebecca.

Not that it particularly matters because Russia isn't becoming a Romanov monarchy any time soon and even if it did Putin/whoever wouldn't pick the claimants based on Pauline Laws.
 
In Eurohistory's biography of the couple I read that the two of them have been together for 10 years (at least is states 'for ten years she provided constant support'); which makes you wonder why they are only getting married when the groom is 40 and the bride 39 - while at least his mother wishes for grandchildren... I sincerely hope they'll have them but while it is never a given, the likelihood of that wish being fulfilled is much lower now than if they had married 5 years ago or so (or was Maria still hoping that her son would find a more suitable bride?).
 
An Ard Ri said:
Is his fiancé name Rebecca Virginia or Victoria as both links above give different first names?

https://eurohistoryjournal.blogspot.com/2020/07/imperial-engagement-grand-duke-george.html

Announcement of the Engagement of the Tsesarevich and Grand Duke George to Victoria Romanova Bettarini — The Russian Legitimist
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She took the name Victoria Romanova when she converted to Russian Orthodoxy.

In Eurohistory's biography of the couple I read that the two of them have been together for 10 years (at least is states 'for ten years she provided constant support'); which makes you wonder why they are only getting married when the groom is 40 and the bride 39 - while at least his mother wishes for grandchildren... I sincerely hope they'll have them but while it is never a given, the likelihood of that wish being fulfilled is much lower now than if they had married 5 years ago or so (or was Maria still hoping that her son would find a more suitable bride?).
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Wasn't it speculated that his mother was trying to find a way around the Pauline Laws that she herself had been pushing? That could have been a reason to wait and see. But since that appears to have been unsuccessful they decided that it was now or never as a "morganatic" unequal marriage.
 
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An Ard Ri said:
Is his fiancé name Rebecca Virginia or Victoria as both links above give different first names?

https://eurohistoryjournal.blogspot.com/2020/07/imperial-engagement-grand-duke-george.html

Announcement of the Engagement of the Tsesarevich and Grand Duke George to Victoria Romanova Bettarini — The Russian Legitimist
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Her name since birth is Rebecca Virginia (Bettarini) but her 'new name upon conversion to the Russian Orthodox church' (in August last year) is Victoria Romanova.
 
Is the below how her father and Rebecca became a 'nobile'? Or was she a 'nobile' from birth? Given that her father seems to be the first 'nobile' in the family, it looks like she might not have been.

Rebecca's father, Ambassador Roberto Bettarini, provided significant support for the construction of the Orthodox Church of St. Catherine in Rome. For his assistance to the Russian Orthodox Church and his efforts to develop and strengthen relations between Russia and Italy, the Head of the Imperial House of Russia, Grand Duchess Maria of Russia, made him a Knight of the Imperial Order of St. Anna First Class, an award which carries with it membership of the historical hereditary nobility of the Russian Empire.
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Source: Eurohistory

I also noticed that the grand duchess mentioned "his chosen bride, the hereditary noblewoman Rebecca Virginia Bettarini" in her statement. So, is this a reference to the above?
 
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i had not spotted that victoria wouldn't be a HIH. i guess it will be Her Serene Highness Victoria Romanoff, Princess of Russia following marriage?


I also noticed that the grand duchess mentioned "his chosen bride, the hereditary noblewoman Rebecca Virginia Bettarini" in her statement. So, is this a reference to the above?
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good question - i'd assume they are referring to the title given to them by GD Maria as otherwise her father and mother would be referred to by their original titles throughout the announcement?
 
Heavs said:
Wasn't it speculated that his mother was trying to find a way around the Pauline Laws that she herself had been pushing? That could have been a reason to wait and see. But since that appears to have been unsuccessful they decided that it was now or never as a "morganatic" unequal marriage.
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Some years ago it was said that she was trying to change the Pauline Laws. But it seems witout success.
 
Congratulation to the couple. It took a long way to get here. I will be looking forward to this wedding, this will be a grand occasion. I am not surprised that the GDss uses the third person and by the Grace of God. Lovely photos.
 
Somebody said:
Is the below how her father and Rebecca became a 'nobile'? Or was she a 'nobile' from birth? Given that her father seems to be the first 'nobile' in the family, it looks like she might not have been.


Source: Eurohistory

I also noticed that the grand duchess mentioned "his chosen bride, the hereditary noblewoman Rebecca Virginia Bettarini" in her statement. So, is this a reference to the above?
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I imagine the Nob. does refer to the titles his mother gave her father, otherwise there would be an essay on the illustrious Bettarini family and not just her father's career as an Ambassador.

http://stcaterina.com/

This is the church he helped with, which is very interesting as the first Orthodox church in Rome for 950 years.
 
The official photo was taken at what location?
Does the Grand Duchess and her son have a home in Russia? Do hes have any palace at your disposal?
 
Hooray! Finally!

Congratulations to the couple!
 
Marengo said:
What process would be needed to change the Pauline laws? One would think that the grand duchess could decide over that by herself but considering the bride will not be an HIH it appears that it is more complicated than that.

Some extra information of the bride-to-be:

https://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/2021/01/more-on-grand-duke-georges-bride.html
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Apparently she was talking with the Patriarchs of the Church to see if they could decree the Pauline Laws invalid, I suppose to give it weight. Which obviously didn't happen.

The problem with she herself just declaring them invalid means that she goes back on what she had her father have been saying for decades. That they are the only true dynasts of the House because they married equally and thus the heirs. If she says they don't matter any more then there are several other branches of the family she has to say are ahead of her or that her claim is more disputed.

So it seems that Georgi and Rebecca just decided to go ahead and get married anyway and his mother stuck to her beliefs and decided that her non royal daughter-in-law won't get the HIH courtesy title.
 
Blog Real said:
Announcement on the official website of the imperial house:
Russian Imperial House - 2021-01-20 Announcement of the Upcoming Wedding of His Imperial Highness The Heir, Tsesarevich, and Grand Duke George of Russia and Nob. Victoria Romanovna Bettarini
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Interesting how although the marriage is to be morganatic in terms of titles the bride will "have the right to use the dynastic surname" Romanoff. I wonder what the coat of arms in the image gallery represents.

Heavs said:
The problem with she herself just declaring them invalid means that she goes back on what she had her father have been saying for decades. That they are the only true dynasts of the House because they married equally and thus the heirs. If she says they don't matter any more then there are several other branches of the family she has to say are ahead of her or that her claim is more disputed.
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The problem hasn't dissuaded many other heads of ex-royal families from doing exactly that. For instance, the Hohenberg branch from Archduke Franz Ferdinand could claim to be the true dynasts of the House of Austria if one consistently applies the changes the junior branch made to the house laws.
 
Tatiana Maria said:
The problem hasn't dissuaded many other heads of ex-royal families from doing exactly that. For instance, the Hohenberg branch from Archduke Franz Ferdinand could claim to be the true dynasts of the House of Austria if one consistently applies the changes the junior branch made to the house laws.
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Yes they have done exactly that. That's why it's very interesting that she seems to have suck to her guns and gone with the "morganatic" HSH and not just given her the HIH, especially as they have no hope of becoming a reigning house again with or without following the laws.
 
It might be important to note that HIH Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna has decreed that HSH Princess Victoria Romanovna will bear the *dynastic surname* of Romanoff. This would likely not have been done if the marriage is considered unequal.
 
Congratulations to the couple. Beautiful photos. :flowers:

Looking forward to seeing pictures of this wedding when it happens.
 
Congratulations to them. Sad they had to wait for the bride to be 39.... Much more difficult to get children unfortunately at that age....
 
Makes one wonder what the Prussian family of the groom has to say to that? Would she be recognized by them as "equal" bride?
 
When Rebecca took the first name of Victoria, was Victoria in honor of any specific lady?
I just know of Grand Duchess Viktoria Feodorovna, the spouse of Grand Duke Cyril.
 
CyrilVladisla said:
When Rebecca took the first name of Victoria, was Victoria in honor of any specific lady?
I just know of Grand Duchess Viktoria Feodorovna, the spouse of Grand Duke Cyril.
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Apparently she chose it after the Holy Martyr Victoria of Rome and Romanova in honour of her father.

It might be important to note that HIH Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna has decreed that HSH Princess Victoria Romanovna will bear the *dynastic surname* of Romanoff. This would likely not have been done if the marriage is considered unequal.
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I would say it's difficult to prevent a woman who wants to from changing their married name to their husband's.

Do you know why Maria would make it clear that she's only granting HSH to Rebecca/Victoria if she does consider the marriage equal and dynastic?

Makes one wonder what the Prussian family of the groom has to say to that? Would she be recognized by them as "equal" bride?
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His father's second marriage isn't "equal" is it? I presume he doesn't mind. Interestingly he's not mentioned anywhere in the marriage announcement and even when divorced many royal couples announce together or at least include both parents good wishes in there.
 
Heavs said:
I imagine the Nob. does refer to the titles his mother gave her father, otherwise there would be an essay on the illustrious Bettarini family and not just her father's career as an Ambassador.
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There is an article about history of Bettarini family, although in Spanish:

https://cuadernosdeayala.es/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/CAyala-83.pdf

When you open an article, scroll down a bit and you will find it. The article is written by certain Dr. D. Fabio Cassani Pironti, Conde de Giraldeli.

If you are not a native Spanish speaker, try google translate.
 
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