Engagement of Grand Duke George Mikhailovich of Russia & Nob. Rebecca Bettarini

[Heavs]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

The problem hasn't dissuaded many other heads of ex-royal families from doing exactly that. For instance, the Hohenberg branch from Archduke Franz Ferdinand could claim to be the true dynasts of the House of Austria if one consistently applies the changes the junior branch made to the house laws.

Yes they have done exactly that. That's why it's very interesting that she seems to have suck to her guns and gone with the "morganatic" HSH and not just given her the HIH, especially as they have no hope of becoming a reigning house again with or without following the laws.

[Benjamin]

It might be important to note that HIH Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna has decreed that HSH Princess Victoria Romanovna will bear the *dynastic surname* of Romanoff. This would likely not have been done if the marriage is considered unequal.

[Countessmeout]

Congratulations to the couple. Beautiful photos.

Looking forward to seeing pictures of this wedding when it happens.

[rominet09]

Congratulations to them. Sad they had to wait for the bride to be 39.... Much more difficult to get children unfortunately at that age....

[Kataryn]

Makes one wonder what the Prussian family of the groom has to say to that? Would she be recognized by them as "equal" bride?

[CyrilVladisla]

When Rebecca took the first name of Victoria, was Victoria in honor of any specific lady?
I just know of Grand Duchess Viktoria Feodorovna, the spouse of Grand Duke Cyril.

[Heavs]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

When Rebecca took the first name of Victoria, was Victoria in honor of any specific lady?
I just know of Grand Duchess Viktoria Feodorovna, the spouse of Grand Duke Cyril.

Apparently she chose it after the Holy Martyr Victoria of Rome and Romanova in honour of her father.

It might be important to note that HIH Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna has decreed that HSH Princess Victoria Romanovna will bear the *dynastic surname* of Romanoff. This would likely not have been done if the marriage is considered unequal.

I would say it's difficult to prevent a woman who wants to from changing their married name to their husband's.

Do you know why Maria would make it clear that she's only granting HSH to Rebecca/Victoria if she does consider the marriage equal and dynastic?

Makes one wonder what the Prussian family of the groom has to say to that? Would she be recognized by them as "equal" bride?

His father's second marriage isn't "equal" is it? I presume he doesn't mind. Interestingly he's not mentioned anywhere in the marriage announcement and even when divorced many royal couples announce together or at least include both parents good wishes in there.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Heavs

She took the name Victoria Romanova when she converted to Russian Orthodoxy.

Many thanks

Congratulations to the happy couple.

[Blog Real]

Grand Duke George Mikhailovich of Russia and his fiancée gave an interview to HOLA after the engagement announcement.

And they revealed some details about the wedding:
"It will be in St. Petersburg and the Kings of Spain will be invited".

https://www.hola.com/realeza/2021012...manov-detalles

[Marc23]

Originally Posted by Heavs

I imagine the Nob. does refer to the titles his mother gave her father, otherwise there would be an essay on the illustrious Bettarini family and not just her father's career as an Ambassador.

There is an article about history of Bettarini family, although in Spanish:

https://cuadernosdeayala.es/wp-conte.../CAyala-83.pdf

When you open an article, scroll down a bit and you will find it. The article is written by certain Dr. D. Fabio Cassani Pironti, Conde de Giraldeli.

If you are not a native Spanish speaker, try google translate.

[Somebody]

The article calls her 'doctora' but I don't find any mention of her doctorate in the article itself. Did any of you catch a mention of her doctoral studies in the article that I might have missed?

[Lady Daly]

Page 7 discusses her education.
https://cuadernosdeayala.es/wp-conte.../CAyala-83.pdf

"Rebecca Virginia Bettarini, Doctor
in Political Science -International Mention
and Community-" "She obtained the European Baccalaureate in 2000, and started the career of Political Science at the University Luiss Guido Carli, from Rome, where she graduated in November 2004 with a thesis on trade
agricultural and standards of the Organization World Trade." Thesis can be a reference to a doctorate. "Successively, has got a master in European law".

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Lady Daly

Page 7 discusses her education.
https://cuadernosdeayala.es/wp-conte.../CAyala-83.pdf

"Rebecca Virginia Bettarini, Doctor
in Political Science -International Mention
and Community-" "She obtained the European Baccalaureate in 2000, and started the career of Political Science at the University Luiss Guido Carli, from Rome, where she graduated in November 2004 with a thesis on trade
agricultural and standards of the Organization World Trade." Thesis can be a reference to a doctorate. "Successively, has got a master in European law".

There is also the masters thesis.

Since there is only mention of two degrees (well three with the law degree), it suggests that the thesis was a masters thesis (which is what numerous blogs have posted). Very rarely can one skip a masters and go straight to PHD.

[Lady Daly]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

There is also the masters thesis.

Since there is only mention of two degrees (well three with the law degree), it suggests that the thesis was a masters thesis (which is what numerous blogs have posted). Very rarely can one skip a masters and go straight to PHD.

The original question was from Somebody: "The article calls her 'doctora' but I don't find any mention of her doctorate in the article itself."

Mentioning thesis without mentioning an actual degree, masters vs doctorate may indicate language barriers/translation or depending on the university people don't actually skip but more like combine curriculums including masters prep ending with a doctorate.

My younger brother graduated from American University in Paris in Business, 4 more years at one of the Sorbonnes (Paris?) with a PhD in economics.

According to: Visit of the Grand Duke to St. Petersburg with the Director of the Russian Imperial Foundation — The Russian Legitimist

"Miss Bettarini attended the Libera Università Internazionale degli Studi Sociali Guido Carli in Rome, where she received her BA in political science. She then went on to attain an MA in development economics and international development from the Società Italiana Organizzazione Internazionale in Rome." No mention of law or a doctorate in political science.

The mystery of Rebecca Virginia Bettarini, Doctor continues.

[SLV]

I think this is a matter of how educational titles are called in different countries.
Before the Anglican BaMa system was introduced in Europe. The same education was called differently in different countries.
My father went for a congress to Germany in the 70's. He had finished uni (4 years) and in the Netherlands you are then called "doctorandus, drs in short". But Germany did not have that title and called him Doctor. On spite of him not having done a PhD.

[Lady Daly]

Originally Posted by SLV

I think this is a matter of how educational titles are called in different countries.
Before the Anglican BaMa system was introduced in Europe. The same education was called differently in different countries.
My father went for a congress to Germany in the 70's. He had finished uni (4 years) and in the Netherlands you are then called "doctorandus, drs in short". But Germany did not have that title and called him Doctor. On spite of him not having done a PhD.

Excellent explanation, somewhat similar to my brother in the 80's in France although he received an equivalent PhD once back in the US. Mystery of the doctorate solved. I think we can say Miss Bettarini is, nevertheless, well educated. Thank you, SLV

[An Ard Ri]

What faith was Rebecca Virginia prior to her conversion to to Russian Orthodoxy?

[Biri]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

What faith was Rebecca Virginia prior to her conversion to to Russian Orthodoxy?

Probably Roman Catholicism.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Lady Daly

Page 7 discusses her education.
https://cuadernosdeayala.es/wp-conte.../CAyala-83.pdf

"Rebecca Virginia Bettarini, Doctor
in Political Science -International Mention
and Community-" "She obtained the European Baccalaureate in 2000, and started the career of Political Science at the University Luiss Guido Carli, from Rome, where she graduated in November 2004 with a thesis on trade
agricultural and standards of the Organization World Trade." Thesis can be a reference to a doctorate. "Successively, has got a master in European law".

Yes, I read that part several times but it is extremely unlike that someone obtains a doctorate at the age of 22; 4 years after finishing high school. And afterwards goes on to pursue her master's degree... So, the thesis was most likely a Bachelor thesis (which might have had a slightly different name; or could even have been a combined 'Bachelor/Master'-degree; which would be a 'doctorandus' in the Netherlands; meaning that you have qualified to start a trajectory towards a doctorate).

Originally Posted by SLV

I think this is a matter of how educational titles are called in different countries.
Before the Anglican BaMa system was introduced in Europe. The same education was called differently in different countries.
My father went for a congress to Germany in the 70's. He had finished uni (4 years) and in the Netherlands you are then called "doctorandus, drs in short". But Germany did not have that title and called him Doctor. On spite of him not having done a PhD.

I think you are right; so, the Spanish publication incorrectly calls her a doctor.

It happened to me once as well at the very first conference I attended; when they thought I had two doctorates (as my title was 'drs.') while I had just started to pursue my PhD.

According to: Visit of the Grand Duke to St. Petersburg with the Director of the Russian Imperial Foundation — The Russian Legitimist

"Miss Bettarini attended the Libera Università Internazionale degli Studi Sociali Guido Carli in Rome, where she received her BA in political science. She then went on to attain an MA in development economics and international development from the Società Italiana Organizzazione Internazionale in Rome." No mention of law or a doctorate in political science.

The mystery of Rebecca Virginia Bettarini, Doctor continues.

This confirms that her first degree was indeed a Bachelor's (or probably the Italian equivalent at that time - causing the confusion).

Found some more information that might be relevant on Wikipedia. Apparently, those with a master's degree are called 'dottore' in Italy...

Universities in Italy fits the framework of the Bologna Process since the adoption, in 1999, of the so-called 3+2 system. The first level degree is the Laurea triennale that can be achieved after three years of studies. Selected students can then complete their studies in the following step: two additional years of specialization which leads to the Laurea Magistrale.

The "Laurea triennale" corresponds roughly to a Bachelor Degree while the "Laurea Magistrale" corresponds to a Master Degree. Only the Laurea Magistrale grants access to third cycle programmes (Post-MA degrees, Doctorates or Specializing schools), that last 2 to 5 years (usually completing a PhD takes 3 years). However, there is just a single five-year degree "Laurea Magistrale Quinquennale" (Five-Year Master of Arts) for some programmes such as Law (Facoltà di Giurisprudenza), Arts (Accademia di Belle Arti) and Music (Conservatorio di Musica). Medical schools (Facoltà di Medicina e Chirurgia) are part of some universities and they only offer six-year courses. The title for MA/MFA/MD/MEd graduate students is Dottore (abbreviation in Dott./Dott.ssa or Dr., meaning Doctor). This title is not to be confused with the PhD and Post-MA graduates, whose title is Dottore di Ricerca (Research Doctor or Philosophy Doctor).

[nithsdale]

Viktoria will not bear the title of Grand Duchess and style of HIH but she will bear the title of Princess (Fuerstin in German) and style HSH.

But I think that their children will bear titles of Grand Dukes/Duchesses and styles of HIH

I read somewhere that Gr Dss Maria needs an approval of Russian Church for it.