Anna Anderson's claim to be Grand Duchess Anastasia

[Anna was Franziska]

It's not that a person believes in AA, I know a certain person will never stop believing no matter what anyone else says. What gets me exasperated is that I have answered the same things for the same person numerous times, and the person still throws exactly the same lists, quotes and comments at me as if they were new, denying I've ever answered them, even asking where I got my info, as if it were the first time and not the twentieth. When I see the same list again and again, knowing I have answered and explained it on the last page as well as several others, I feel like I could explode. This is not only extremely frustrating, but takes the thread again in the circular motion that goes nowhere and helps nothing. As long as this is happening, the discussion is essentially useless and is counterproductive. Please take a look back at how many times certain things have been said repeatedly.

 

[Warren]

If you know what the response will be, there's no point in getting exasperated or frustrated when the response is exactly what you expect. You can try to convince, but you can't force anyone to be convinced. People will believe what they want to believe. Just accept it.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

I am not trying to convince him, that is useless. I only like explaining the answers to others who might stop by to read so they won't be misled. however, when I have to answer the same list over and over, it becomes exasperating. I would honestly like to know if the person really has that bad of a memory, has blocked out all non AA info, or is only playing games with me.

 

[Menarue]

Playing games I think Anna was F. The more you answer the more fun. Just MHO.

 

[ChatNoir]

I quite frankly don't understand why it has become some people's mission in life to make others believe what they obviously do. I find the story interesting, and I like to present the facts as stated by those who were there when it happened, try to keep truth from lies, and not embellish my answers too much with my own theories and beliefs. But for fanatics with websites and homespun theories to support their beliefs, I guess it is a matter of life and death to make sure I do not "mislead" anybody with the real story. Somehow, I personally think that the rest of the world is fully capable of making their own opinions in spite of what I say and write, and I see no need for running a website supporting my opinions or building internet altars to the deceased.
Now, can we get back to the story?

 

[Menarue]

What story Chat? There is no story left. The dna said that it is over and done with.
The IRF all died, AA was an impostor (even if she believed her own story in the end) so that should be that. Franzisca is a nobody, whether she was AA or not, she and AA were both nobodies.

 

[ChatNoir]

What story Chat? There is no story left. The dna said that it is over and done with.
The IRF all died, AA was an impostor (even if she believed her own story in the end) so that should be that. Franzisca is a nobody, whether she was AA or not, she and AA were both nobodies.

And you still seem to follow it very closely. Amazing.

 

[Menarue]

No, I only come here occasionally to see if the there is anything worth more than a yawn. There isn´t.

 

[ChatNoir]

No, I only come here occasionally to see if the there is anything worth more than a yawn. There isn´t.

And while you go to bed, maybe we others could get back to the story? Because if there had been no story, this subforum would not have existed. No matter who Anna Anderson was, the tale behind her claim is extremely interesting and has divided people into camps "for" and "against" ever since she announced her alleged identity to Thea Malinovsky in the fall of 1921. And with Franzisca Schanzkowska's mixed into the tale, it has become even more dividing and fascinating. No matter what one believes, the mystery only gets more complicated the more one digs into it. And that what keeps me entertained. (And deep down, I suspect I am not the only one.....)

 

[Warren]

And that what keeps me entertained. (And deep down, I suspect I am not the only one.....)

I hope you're not referring to this thread, for whatever adjectives we may use to describe the experience, I don't think "entertained" would be on the list.

 

[ChatNoir]

As for Nichola's tattoo, here is another photo:

 

[ChatNoir]

I hope you're not referring to this thread, for whatever adjectives we may use to describe the experience, I don't think "entertained" would be on the list.

I meant the whole story, not necessarily what is served up here....

 

[Warren]

Yes, I know what you meant.

re the Tsar's tattoo, is there mention of the part of his arm it was supposedly located? The pics are inconclusive as they don't show above the elbow. I recall one of Charlotte Zeepvat's articles in the now sadly defunct Royalty Digest where she made mention of his tattoo, but I can't remember the context.

 

[ChatNoir]

Yes, I know what you meant.

re the Tsar's tattoo, is there mention of the part of his arm it was supposedly located? The pics are inconclusive as they don't show above the elbow. I recall one of Charlotte Zeepvat's articles in the now sadly defunct Royalty Digest where she made mention of his tattoo, but I can't remember the context.

In looking at other photos, there are some shadings on his right forearm, but they look more like pigment spots than tattoos. And the last photo here clearly shows his right arm as tattoo free. Maybe his tattoo was somewhere else on his body, but I have seen a photo somewhere of him swimming in the nude, it shows his whole backside, and no tattoo in sight.

 

[Michael HR]

I have seen a photo with the tattoo and will see if I can find it for you.

 

[tsarskoe]

Chat, I see your point that it is difficult if not impossible to see in some photos- i think that is due to the colors used in the tattoo. But there are many sources-including the Tsar's own diary that he spent hours getting a tattoo in Japan.

From: http://www.ukcopywriter.co.uk/pdfs/tattoo.pdf
"In 1891 Chiyo of Yokohama, the master of Japanese tattooing practiced his art on Tsar Nicholas of Russia."

From Ben Hills : Japan Unlimited : The man who collects tattoed human skins

"Foreigners have always been fascinated by Japanese tattoos - and not only brawny jack-tars. In the days when it was more socially acceptable, both the future King George V of England, and the future Tsar Nicholas II of Russia - visiting Yokohama as midshipmen on navy goodwill visits - had dragons tattooed on their forearms."

From: tattoobodypiercingcommitteereport_115

" Tsar Nicholas of Russia and King George V were tattooed in the traditional Japanese style"

 

[ChatNoir]

Maybe he had a tattoo, but I really cannot see any on his arms, and that is what Dassel claimed. And AA said "Nonsense, he had nothing on his arms."

 

[ChatNoir]

I have seen a photo with the tattoo and will see if I can find it for you.

Thank you, Michael, it would be so nice to put this thing to rest....

 

[Warren]

He seems to have been somehow overlooked in the giving of "thank you" acknowledgements so to make up for that omission here's a thanks to tsarskoe for providing the links and quotes that make up part of the "Tsar's tattoo" discussion.

 

[tsarskoe]

Thank you Warren, but no need to thank me though. I simply appreciate the venue for us to discuss the AA case intelligently. So to you and all the posters here I say thank you

 

[ChatNoir]

Just for good measure: Here is a clear photo of the Tsar's left arm. Still no tattoo.

 

[tian]

Here's a picture of the tattoo. The snake-like figure that covers quite a bit of the arm.

 

[Russophile]

I hope you're not referring to this thread, for whatever adjectives we may use to describe the experience, I don't think "entertained" would be on the list.

Actually Warren, I've been HIGHLY entertained by it all.



(But then again, you know I'm a bit off. . . . )

 

[ChatNoir]

Here's a picture of the tattoo. The snake-like figure that covers quite a bit of the arm.

Then where did it go?

 

[Menarue]

I didn´t! It´s there.

 

[tsarskoe]

Though faint, I think one can clearly see the curves of the dragon

 

[tsarskoe]

Even better

 

[ChatNoir]

You know, I think you are right. It's just very hard to spot on some photos, probably due to the light. Strike one against AA.

 

[tsarskoe]

And here is the photograph above compared to the one TIAN posted. Notice the exact same shape and outline.

 

[tsarskoe]

I do agree with you though Chat, when I was told of the tattoo's existence I did not see it either. It was only after seeing photos like the ones above that I could notice it. I NEVER would have previously thought the Tsar would have had a tattoo. I must say Im impressed by its size. It must have hurt tremendously.