Anna Anderson's claim to be Grand Duchess Anastasia

[AnastasiaEvidence]

Wrong. It is noted in the protocols at Dalldorf that she spoke Russian with the nurses there. The doctor who treated her at the Kleist's, said that she spoke Russian in her sleep, with good pronunciation, but mostly about unimportant things. In 1938, when she had a "good" period mentally, AA spoke Russian freely with Dr. Rudnev and Albert Coyle, an associate of Edward Fallows.

Well, at the time she didn't know any Russian. But, later on it wasn't proven to the court that she knew Russian. There is NO evidence Anna Anderson spoke Russian nor French. She would make up excuses such as: She forgot Russian and French; because of that illness she had, Tatiana Botkin defended her for that. Another excuse was that she couldn't speak the langauge of the people who murdered her. FS and AA are the same person they knew both some German and Polish langauge.

She spoke German very badly. (Franziska spoke good German.) Her English was good, according to Xenia Leeds, although her grammar was a little rusty. According to Dominique Aucleres, she spoke French with a beautiful accent.

AA actually spoke German at the hospital. It, was regular.She perfered to speak to Gilliard in German. Olga Alexandrovna, said she couldn't be Anastasia because she doesn't know any Russian and didn't want to speak any. Olga, knew that Anastasia often spoke Russian to Alexei, Olga, Tatiana, Maria and Nicholas.That's why Gilliard, got suspicious of her because, Anastasia didn't know any German. Kashubian is from a Polish dialect and AA/FS did speak it.

Her hair was never measured in 1920, so this is a moot point.

So what? She didn't have bangs! Her headline was different from Anastasia's.

Notice that AA doesn't have any bangs that Anastasia have always worn. She doesn't have her facial features. There are many differences she has between Anastasia.



Anastasia's all the way to the left she has bangs.

I think you should be a little careful how you write about Mr. Kurth's meticulously researched book. It happens to be the very best book ever written on the subject.

No, your wrong! Robert K. Massie's book is accurate. Peter Kuth's book the ''Riddle of Anastasia'' and the ''Lost world of Nicholas and Alexandra'' has many inaccurate information.'' Les Fausse Anastasie'' Gilliard's book is also a great resources.

Read the report of the Berlin Police, it clearly states that FS was German.

Yes, she spoke German, but wasn't BORN in Germany it was actually in Poland. Franziska Schanzkowska is Anna Anderson. Remember, she left from Poland to go to Germany. Anderson only wanted to pretend to be Anastasia because she believed her life was very useless. She pretend to be Tatiana at first, but Clara suggested she's too short to be Tatiana. So, then she decided to be Anastasia. Sophie came in and said she couldn't be Anastasia. Of course she's a liar! AA tricked people into believing her so she can get money and attention. That's why AA went all the way to America so she can get attention.

Baroness Sophie Buxhoevedon's said:
The eyes and forehead showed some resemblance to the Grand Duchess Tatiana Nicolaievna, resemblance that disappeared, nevertheless, as soon as her face was not covered. I had to remove the cover by force, and I saw that neither the nose, the mouth, nor the chin were formed like that of the Grand Duchess.

She was angered by the fact her fiance was killed. She did seek to become a actress. She even tried to kill herself, that's when the Berlin police stoped her. AA/FS is mentally ill, she was in two hospitals before she disapeared! They disapeared at the same time.

[Menarue]

The Russian aristocracy spoke French to each other and Russian to the servants. Why on earth would Anastasia speak German to her French tutor?
I am just amazed at how many apparently intelligent people could believe her fantastic story. I would be overjoyed if any of the Imperial family escaped but unfortunately they were all brutally murdered.

[AnastasiaEvidence]

Originally Posted by Menarue

The Russian aristocracy spoke French to each other and Russian to the servants. Why on earth would Anastasia speak German to her French tutor?
I am just amazed at how many apparently intelligent people could believe her fantastic story. I would be overjoyed if any of the Imperial family escaped but unfortunately they were all brutally murdered.

Exactly! NAOTMAA did speak Russian and French. Also, English too! That's right! She can't be Anastasia if she only talks in German to Gilliard. AA didn't not know any French period! None of the Romanovs survived. Anastasia died along with her family at the age of seventeen. Believing in her fantasy story, proves how people don't respect the Romanovs memory.

And according to the others in the room, AA said nothing, just turned red and got a happy look on her face.

No, AA said something in German.

From Gilliard's timetables, now on display at the University of Lausanne, we know that the Grand Duchesses took German lessons up to the time in Tobolsk. Herr Kleinenberg was their tutor up to the revolution. Another proof is the discovery of Anastasia's schoolbooks on an auction in London. These make it clear that she took serious German lesson.

No, the girls never took German lessons. They didn't know German at all! There is no evidence Anastasia took German. She had only letters in, English, French and Russian. NOT, GERMAN.

How very embarrassing it must then have been for Gilliard at the court in Hamburg where he had to admit to the judges that AA had spoken in Russian to his wife, Shura. According to Gilliard's memoirs, the Grand Duchesses never mastered French, only Alexei spoke it fluently.

No, the grand duchesses did master French. Haven't you seen the artwork and letters they wrote in French, to Gilliard?

[ChatNoir]

Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence

Well, at the time she didn't know any Russian.

As I explained to you, it is noted in the protocols at Dalldorf that she spoke Russian with the nurses there. Erna Bucholz testified that she spoke Russian like a native, not like a foreigner who learnt it later in life.

But, later on it wasn't proven to the court that she knew Russian.

And where is your source for this?

There is NO evidence Anna Anderson spoke Russian nor French. She would make up excuses such as: She forgot Russian and French; because of that illness she had, Tatiana Botkin defended her for that. Another excuse was that she couldn't speak the langauge of the people who murdered her. FS and AA are the same person they knew both some German and Polish langauge.

If you care to read my previous posts, you will see that FS spoke good German, while AA spoke it badly with a typical Russian accent. AA knew no Polish. Nurse Thea Malinovski testified to that.

AA actually spoke German at the hospital. It, was regular.She perfered to speak to Gilliard in German. Olga Alexandrovna, said she couldn't be Anastasia because she doesn't know any Russian and didn't want to speak any. Olga, knew that Anastasia often spoke Russian to Alexei, Olga, Tatiana, Maria and Nicholas.That's why Gilliard, got suspicious of her because, Anastasia didn't know any German. Kashubian is from a Polish dialect and AA/FS did speak it.

As I have already stated, Gilliard had to admit in the Hamburg court that AA did indeed speak Russian to his wife.

So what? She didn't have bangs! Her headline was different from Anastasia's.

Notice that AA doesn't have any bangs that Anastasia have always worn. She doesn't have her facial features. There are many differences she has between Anastasia.
Anastasia's all the way to the left she has bangs.

Anastasia did not have bangs in Siberia. Your ramblings about her headline make no sense. 5 experts have found the faces of AA and AN to be identical.

No, your wrong Robert K. Massie's book is accurate. Peter Kuth's book the Riddle of Anastasia and the Lost world of Nicholas and Alexandra has many inaccurate things.''

Les Fausse Anastasie'' Gilliard's book is also a great resources.

And how do you know that? From your posts, it is very clear that you have not read up on the subject, but form your own opinions.

Yes, she spoke German, but wasn't BORN in Germany it was actually in Poland.

The province where she was born belonged to the German Empire at the time. It is in Poland today.

Franziska Schanzkowska is Anna Anderson. Remember, she left from Poland to go to Germany. Anderson only wanted to pretend to be Anastasia because she believed her life was very useless. She pretend to be Tatiana at first, but Clara suggested she's too short to be Tatiana. So, then she decided to be Anastasia. Sophie came in and said she couldn't be Anastasia. Of course she's a liar! AA tricked people into believing her so she can get money and attention. That's why AA went all the way to America so she can get attention.

She left from her little Dorf to go to Berlin, where she worked as a bottle washer, a waitress, a factory employee and a far employee. And she did not pretend to be Tatiana, she confessed to Thea Malinovsky in fall of 1921 that she was Anastasia. Later, Clara Peuthert mistook her for Tatiana. And believe me, money and attention were the last thing she was seeking. Maybe you could disclose your sources <ed> ?

Baroness Sophie Buxhoevedon's said:

The eyes and forehead showed some resemblance to the Grand Duchess Tatiana Nicolaievna, resemblance that disappeared, nevertheless, as soon as her face was not covered. I had to remove the cover by force, and I saw that neither the nose, the mouth, nor the chin were formed like that of the Grand Duchess.

Again, Sophie Buxhoeveden is running against the experts as far as likeness goes.

She was angered by the fact her fiance was killed. She did seek to become a actress. She even tried to kill herself, that's when the Berlin police stoped her.

AA/FS is mentally ill, she was in two hospitals before she disapeared! They disapeared at the same time.

Yes, FS was declared mentally ill. AA was NEVER declared mentally ill.And who said she was seeking to become an actress? Sources, please. According to her sister Gertrude, FS was "just one of the girls."

[ChatNoir]

Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence

Exactly! NAOTMAA did speak Russian and French. Also, English too! That's right! She can't be Anastasia if she only talks in German to Gilliard. AA didn't not know any French period! None of the Romanovs survived. Anastasia died along with her family at the age of seventeen. Believing in her fantasy story, proves how people don't respect the Romanovs memory.

See my previous posts.

No, AA said something in German.

She said nothing as her aunt Olga walked in. Afterwords, Zahle asked her: "Who was that?" AA answered: "My aunt Olga, Papa's sister."
"Why did you not address her by name?"
"I was so happy, I could say nothing."

As it turned out, they had sent in Olga after Gilliard to see if AA would mistake her for Shura, but she did not. When Shura later entered the room, Olga said: "Who is that, you must introduce me." "Shura", said AA.

No, the girls never took German lessons. They didn't know German at all! There is no evidence Anastasia took German. She had only letters in, English, French and Russian. NOT, GERMAN.

Did you read my previous posts about this? If not, please go back and do so.

No, the grand duchesses did master French. Haven't you seen the artwork and letters they wrote in French, to Gilliard?

According to Gilliard, the girls never got a good grip on French, Alexei was the only one who mastered it.

[Menarue]

I can see that you want Anastasia to have survived and blindly believe in a book. Go ahead, believe. I only wish that you were right but it is no use arguing about it she is dead now, the crime was committed. I wonder what Prince Philip thinks about this, he was very close to his cousins. But believe me GD Anastasia would never speak German to her French tutor.

[ChatNoir]

Originally Posted by Menarue

I can see that you want Anastasia to have survived and blindly believe in a book.

I am only sticking to the facts. And I get my facts from books, not A BOOK. Of course, we will probably never know which stories are true or not, but since I was not there, I have to rely on information from those who were, such as Harriet Rathlef Keilmann, Gleb Botkin, Tatiana Botkin, the Duke of Leuchtenberg, Xenia Leeds, Herluf Zahle etc etc.

Go ahead, believe. I only wish that you were right but it is no use arguing about it she is dead now, the crime was committed. I wonder what Prince Philip thinks about this, he was very close to his cousins. But believe me GD Anastasia would never speak German to her French tutor.

AA spoke German or English to everybody. When Dominique Aucleres slipped into French, AA would answer her in the same language. She would use Russian now and then without being aware of it, but as soon as someone pointed out to her that she had been talking in Russian, she denied it. Only in 1938, when she had a good mental period and really felt happy, she would overcome her fear of speaking Russian and used it freely with Albert Coyle and Dr. Rudnev. (See Fallows' notes.)

[AnastasiaEvidence]

I can see that you want Anastasia to have survived and blindly believe in a book. Go ahead, believe. I only wish that you were right but it is no use arguing about it she is dead now, the crime was committed. I wonder what Prince Philip thinks about this, he was very close to his cousins. But believe me GD Anastasia would never speak German to her French tutor

Black cat, has always been the same as before. He refuses to accept the fact that AA was never Anastasia. You're defending AA, as everyone said she's your goddess. I really had enought of you.You argue with everyone, it's just like the cat chasing his tail a thousand of times! He always post the same inaccurate information. I'm quite sure Prince Phillip would be mad at us, still discussing something that's been already proven for years. AA is proven to not be Anastasia for over 12 years. She's not Anastasia period. Most of the family members had the brains to figure out that, a mentally ill fraud isn't Anastasia. Prince Phillip knows that AA is not relative to him anyway. Exactly! It wouldn't make any sense for Anastasia to speak German to her french tutor. The fact is: AA didn't know any French, if she did she wouldn't have said she rather speak German instead to Gilliard then. Sydney Gibbes denied AA and he was Anastasia's English tutor.

I am only sticking to the facts. And I get my facts from books, not A BOOK. Of course, we will probably never know which stories are true or not, but since I was not there, I have to rely on information from those who were, such as Harriet Rathlef Keilmann, Gleb Botkin, Tatiana Botkin, the Duke of Leuchtenberg, Xenia Leeds, Herluf Zahle etc etc.

If you're sticking to the facts why are you not getting any of your sources from Olga Alexandrovna or Gilliard? They are the ones who know all about the Real Anastasia.Of, course BlackCat would count on the information from the AA supporters, they barely know the imperial family as well as their close relatives. You should be getting your information from: Sydney Gibbes, Baroness Sophie Buxhoevedon,Olga Alexandrovna, Gilliard, Princess Irene, Grand Duke Ernest, and Robert K. Massie's book: Romanovs: final chapter. These are the people who really helped and cared about Real Anastasia.

Yes, FS was declared mentally ill. AA was NEVER declared mentally ill.And who said she was seeking to become an actress? Sources, please. According to her sister Gertrude, FS was "just one of the girls."

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of! AA is mentally ill, she was in two hospitals before she went missing! Haven't you read that when she was older she was very mentally ill what about those hundreds of cats she had! Trying to kill yourself, would make you mentally ill and sick! That's something AA did. She thought her life was useless and not grea. So, then she had the idea to pretend to be Tatiana first, then Clara said she's too tall to be Tatiana. That's when she started to claim to be Anastasia. She did it for money, and fame she didn't care at all about the REAL ANASTASIA. Even before DNA, people were smart enough to figure out AA wasn't Anastasia. Everyone can with common sense.

[Shaiya]

I've been greatly interested in the Anna Anderson case for four years, since I was 11. While I've always harbored this hope that perhaps she was the real Grand Duchess Anastasia, there always seems to be pieces missing from the puzzle. I'm going to say that I really don't know if she was or if she wasn't. There is compelling evidence for both cases and both sides of the story. Some of the evidence just seems very concrete for Anna Anderson such as the almost identical ears, the handwriting, and many of her memories. But at the same time, of course there's the DNA test, which basically proved that she couldn't have been Anastasia unless the DNA was from another source. There's also the fact that many of her relatives didn't recognize her and the lawsuit she started to get whatever was left of the Romanov fortune.

The languages are a whole other issue. There was a nurse from the asylum that Anna Anderson was in who said that she could understand Russian and sometimes spoke it to her. Anna Anderson could speak English, as was shown when she moved to America and didn't need to learn it all over again. She was also familiar with many English nursery rhymes that she could've learned from OTMA's childhood nurse, Miss Eager, who was Irish. I don't know if she truly did speak Russian or if the nurse lied, or if she could speak French. One of the detractors in the AA case is that Anastasia could not speak German, but AA could.

One thing I do know is that she wasn't Franciska Schanzkowska. There are just too many loopholes in that story. I still hope that Anastasia and Anna Anderson were the same person and that Anastasia was somehow able to survive the great tragedy that killed her entire family, I can't be sure. Hopefully one day, the truth will be revealed, but for now, it seems like there's no way for me to completely believe one side or the other.

[ChatNoir]

Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence

Black cat, has always been the same as before. He refuses to accept the fact that AA was never Anastasia. You're defending AA, as everyone said she's your goddess. I really had enought of you.You argue with everyone, it's just like the cat chasing his tail a thousand of times! He always post the same inaccurate information.

Wrong on all points.

I'm quite sure Prince Phillip would be mad at us, still discussing something that's been already proven for years. AA is proven to not be Anastasia for over 12 years. She's not Anastasia period. Most of the family members had the brains to figure out that, a mentally ill fraud isn't Anastasia. Prince Phillip knows that AA is not relative to him anyway. Exactly!

So why don't you take the evidence to court and get a legal decision?

It wouldn't make any sense for Anastasia to speak German to her french tutor. The fact is: AA didn't know any French, if she did she wouldn't have said she rather speak German instead to Gilliard then. Sydney Gibbes denied AA and he was Anastasia's English tutor.

Se my former posts.

If you're sticking to the facts why are you not getting any of your sources from Olga Alexandrovna or Gilliard? They are the ones who know all about the Real Anastasia.Of, course BlackCat would count on the information from the AA supporters, they barely know the imperial family as well as their close relatives.

Oh, I have gotten lots of information from Olga and Gilliard. Just think of Olga who said to Harriet von Rathlef Keilmann: Shura and our little one seem happy to have found each other again. I am so glad I came, Mama was so against me leaving. If I only had some money, I would do anything I could for the little one. As it is, I have to earn my pocket money by painting.
And Gilliard said: What has become of the Grand Duchess, she is a veritable ruin. I will do anything I can to help the Grand Duchess.
Olga then told Herluf Zahle: My heart believes that the little one is Anastasia. And before they left Berlin, they left without being able to say that she was not Anastasia.

You should be getting your information from: Sydney Gibbes, Baroness Sophie Buxhoevedon,Olga Alexandrovna, Gilliard, Princess Irene, Grand Duke Ernest, and Robert K. Massie's book: Romanovs: final chapter. These are the people who really helped and cared about Real Anastasia.

Yes, I have gotten all this information. Sophie Buxhoeveden was definitely of the belief that AA was an impostor. Olga very much changed her story after the meeting. Gilliard has been caught in so many lies that nothing he says can be trusted. Princess Irene was so troubled by the whole thing that the subject became taboo in the household. Grand Duke Ernest never met her. And yes, I have read Massie's book.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of! AA is mentally ill, she was in two hospitals before she went missing!

You have her confused with FS who was declared mentally ill.

Haven't you read that when she was older she was very mentally ill what about those hundreds of cats she had!

She was declared sane, but unable to take care of herself.

Trying to kill yourself, would make you mentally ill and sick! That's something AA did. She thought her life was useless and not grea.

Well, if you had gone through as much as she allegedly did, you might see things in a different light.

So, then she had the idea to pretend to be Tatiana first, then Clara said she's too tall to be Tatiana.

I think you have your information somewhat mixed up. She first came out in 1921 as Anastasia. Then Clara Marie Peuthert mistook her for Tatiana. Then Buxhoeveden hauled her out of bed and declared her too short for Tatiana.

That's when she started to claim to be Anastasia. She did it for money, and fame she didn't care at all about the REAL ANASTASIA. Even before DNA, people were smart enough to figure out AA wasn't Anastasia. Everyone can with common sense.

Wrong again. On all points.

[Menarue]

I would just like to ask two questions about this unending subject. What was the name of Ana Anderson´s husband? Is anyone related to him on this thread? I believe he was the one that absolutely, blindly believed that he had married a Russian Grand Duchess.

[ChatNoir]

His name was John (Jack) E. Manahan. He did indeed believe he married the Romanov Princess. When Maria Rasputin visited the couple in Virginia, he had her sign a declaration to the effect that she had recognized Anna Anderson as her old playmate Anastasia.

[AnastasiaEvidence]

Wrong on all points.

Oh, please! Everyone knows that your goddess is Anna Anderson. Your defending her like she's your god. You have been doing it for many years!

So why don't you take the evidence to court and get a legal decision?

I don't have to get an answer from court. It's already historically proven that Anastasia isn't Anna Anderson. In books, documentaries, newspapers and internet articles state this. Why don't you go to court and take your story of 'AA being Anastasia'? I'm quite sure the jurry and the judge would laugh at you. You wouldn't have a defendant!

Se my former posts.

Yes, I've already read it, and it doesn't convince me that Anastasia knew German. You have no evidence, Black cat of Anastasia speaking German. As far as I'm concerned, Anastasia knew NO GERMAN!

Oh, I have gotten lots of information from Olga and Gilliard. Just think of Olga who said to Harriet von Rathlef Keilmann: Shura and our little one seem happy to have found each other again. I am so glad I came, Mama was so against me leaving. If I only had some money, I would do anything I could for the little one. As it is, I have to earn my pocket money by painting.
And Gilliard said: What has become of the Grand Duchess, she is a veritable ruin. I will do anything I can to help the Grand Duchess.
Olga then told Herluf Zahle: My heart believes that the little one is Anastasia. And before they left Berlin, they left without being able to say that she was not Anastasia.

I've already stated what Olga and Gilliard both said about AA. They said she wasn't Anastasia, too them she just didn't appear to look like her in the face, and eyes. They never had any thoughts of her being Anastasia, because of the langauge of Russian and English she didn't speak at the time. No, evidence of AA speaking Russian.Sydney Gibbes defiantly knew she wasn't Anastasia because of how bad her English was. Did you see all of Anastasia's letters in English, French and Russian? her original handwriting?

[ChatNoir]

Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence

Oh, please! Everyone knows that your goddess is Anna Anderson. Your defending her like she's your god. You have been doing it for many years!

You seem to know a lot about me without even having met me. What really seems to upset you, is that I know a lot more about the subject than you obviously do. Still, I wish we did not have to drag this down to a personal level.....

I don't have to get an answer from court.

It's already historically proven that Anastasia isn't Anna Anderson.

Actually, it is not. That's why this discussion continues.

In books, documentaries, newspapers and internet articles state this.

Maybe you could give us some excerpts.

Why don't you go to court and take your story of 'AA being Anastasia'? I'm quite sure the jurry and the judge would laugh at you. You wouldn't have a defendant!

An interesting aspect. You remember Moritz Furtmayr and his PIK method of making a face-print of people? Well, is so happens that his method was accepted by the German court in criminal cases. He also pointed out that AA and Anastasia had identical ears. Armed with that information, I think AA would have won her case if her supporters had decided to reopen it.

Yes, I've already read it, and it doesn't convince me that Anastasia knew German. You have no evidence, Black cat of Anastasia speaking German. As far as I'm concerned, Anastasia knew NO GERMAN!

When Anastasia's own school books cannot convince you, then I cannot either. And why argue, the proof is right there, and your denying it will not make a difference.

I've already stated what Olga and Gilliard both said about AA. They said she wasn't Anastasia, too them she just didn't appear to look like her in the face, and eyes.

Funny you should mention eyes, even Gilliard had to admit that her eyes looked like Anastasia's.

They never had any thoughts of her being Anastasia, because of the langauge of Russian and English she didn't speak at the time.

And if Gilliard did not think that she could be Anastasia, why did he tell Olga differently? Because Olga was the one who wrote to Gilliard and told him to go to Berlin. "If it really is her, let me know, and I shall go to Berlin."

No, evidence of AA speaking Russian.

I will not repeat this any more. See my earlier post on this subject.

Sydney Gibbes defiantly knew she wasn't Anastasia because of how bad her English was. Did you see all of Anastasia's letters in English, French and Russian? her original handwriting?

Her handwriting was found to be identical to Anna Anderson's by Lucy Weiszäcker from the Cornelius Institute, and also Minna Becker, a graphologist expert appointed by the Hamburg court.

[Kurenai]

This is my first post on this forum. And the identity of Anna Andersen has been a source of interest to me.

Wow, can't believe a lot of people have really strong opinions as to who was Anna Andersen exactly, but some of you obviously looked really into this.

As to Anna Andersen (if she was a fraud) understanding Russian and even speaking bits of Russian to other people, I'm won't be surprised because she's Polish. And Polish is very similar to Russian in many ways.

I'm married to a man whose parents immigrated from Poland when they were in their 20s, and my husband understands quite a bit of Russian which surprises me. He has a Russian couple working in his office and he's always coming home with stories of what these people were arguing about, etc.

[ChatNoir]

I don't speak Russian, nor Polish. All I can do, is rely on the information from the people who were there when it all happened.
When AA was at Dalldorf, she was addressed in Polish by nurse Thea Malinovski, but it was obvious that she understood nothing of what the nurse said to her. She did, however, converse in Russian with nurse Erna Bucholz, who stated that she spoke Russian like a native, using full, unimpedimented sentences.
Later in life, she would pretend not to understand or speak Russian. One day, professor Rudnev and Harriet Rathlef-Keilmann were discussing her eating habits in Russian. Frau Rathlef-Keilmann complained to the doctor that AA would eat so very little and give everything away to the cat. AA protested, saying that she ate enough and gave nothing to the cat. Professor Rudnev and Frau Rathlef-Keilmann could not help laughing, and the doctor said to her: "Since I know you understand Russian perfectly, I shall only speak to you in Russian from now on." AA turned her head against the wall, saying: "I understood nothing, leave me alone."

[GlitteringTiaras]

It is becoming a bit too heated in this topic.
Please remember to be respectful to each other.

Thank you very much.

GT
Russian Mod

[Kurenai]

I'm not so sure what to make of it, but I was always under the impression that AA was false. But I don't believe she intended to mislead others -- I truly believe she thought she was the member of the Royal Family. I say this because I have read widely on the subject of Anastasia, but I don't want to quote from everything I read. Everybody is free to make their own choices, but it seems like a lot of people on this thread are taking everything a little too seriously and personally.

On a side note, I share the same birthday as Anastasia. When I converted to Catholicism in my early teens I chose Anastasia as my baptismal name -- but that was years before I started getting interested in the Russian Royal family. I was pressed for time and still had to pick out a name, so I just chose Anastasia. Later when I told my mother about how I shared the same birthday as the poor Grand Duchess, she became very upset and tried to convince me to change my baptismal name! But by then it was too late... I was in my late teens and had no intention of going through tons of paper work just so that I can change my baptismal name.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by Kurenai

This is my first post on this forum. And the identity of Anna Andersen has been a source of interest to me.

Wow, can't believe a lot of people have really strong opinions as to who was Anna Andersen exactly, but some of you obviously looked really into this.

Indeed we do!
There are many different facets of us:
Those that believe she was;
Those that believe she wasn't;
Those like me that are on the fence but support everything that can be done to prove or disprove the legend; and
Those that are quite fanatical about it all and have made up websites and photobuckets with almost fanatical worship of the Imperial Family.
It's an interesting mix!

[AnastasiaEvidence]

I don't speak Russian, nor Polish. All I can do, is rely on the information from the people who were there when it all happened.
When AA was at Dalldorf, she was addressed in Polish by nurse Thea Malinovski, but it was obvious that she understood nothing of what the nurse said to her. She did, however, converse in Russian with nurse Erna Bucholz, who stated that she spoke Russian like a native, using full, unimpedimented sentences.

This is another example of something that never been proven. These are only rumours. If, AA knew Russian, and French , I would think she would try to prove it to Olga Alexandrovna and Pierre Gilliard. They said she didn't know any, and wanted to speak in German. So, they instantly knew that wasn't Anastasia.But, she didn't so therefore that isn't true. The people who actually talked to Anastasia, in those languages. The AA supporters like to make up differences between Franziska Schanzkowska and, such as the languages they spoke and physical differences. If AA claimed she knew Russian why didn't she speak it? She was only adding on lies and excuses to that.

As to Anna Andersen (if she was a fraud) understanding Russian and even speaking bits of Russian to other people, I'm won't be surprised because she's Polish. And Polish is very similar to Russian in many ways.

Yes, Russian is very similar to Polish. The dialet is very similar.. Completely different langauges though. AA/FS was born in 1896 in Poland. She was nearly five years older than the Real Anastasia.AA is a fraud; she was Franziska a Polish factory worker. People are only refusing to believe in this because they make up excuses about AA and FS disapearing at a different time. I know you haven't read much on the Imperial family.

All I can do, is rely on the information from the people who were there when it all happened.

Obviously, you are getting the wrong information from the wrong people. They didn't even know Anastasia as much as the people who was against AA. What about when she acted like she was Roman Catholic! Anastasia, was Russian Orthodox the opposite of Catholism.
Felix said this:
I claim categorically that Anna Anderson is not Anastasia Nicolaievna, but just an adventuress, a sick hysteric and a frightful playactress. I simply cannot understand how anyone can be in doubt of this. If you had seen her, I am convinced that you would recoil in horror at the thought that this frightful creature could be a daughter of our Tsar ... These false pretenders ought to be gathered up and sent to live in a house somewhere.
Many decades before the DNA testing many people found it ridiculous, to believe AA's garbage and rubbish. It's very sad, and disgraceful!

When Anastasia's own school books cannot convince you, then I cannot either. And why argue, the proof is right there, and your denying it will not make a difference.

Anastasia, never knew Geman! Alix, was born in Germany. But, she grew up in England with her grandmother Queen Victoria. Princess Alix spoke with a proper English accent. The grand duchesses didn't need to know German because their Hohenzollern relatives already knew English. There is no proof of OTMA speaking German. I haven't seen one of Anastasia's schoolbooks in German. Maybe, in French, English and Russian! But, NOT GERMAN! I've never seen any of Anastasia's letters in German.

Her handwriting was found to be identical to Anna Anderson's by Lucy Weiszäcker from the Cornelius Institute, and also Minna Becker, a graphologist expert appointed by the Hamburg court.

Yes, you are right, Minna Becker said AA and Anastasia's signatures match. The court didn't even include that, though they said it wasn't enough of the signatures! But, on the other hand Pierre Gilliard said that she's been practicing and trying to immitate Anastasia's handwriting. It's just like with the photographs, AA tried to immitate Anastasia's expressions in the photos so she can trick people into thinking she's Anastasia. She went to America, so she can get Americans to believe that she was Anastasia! She had a scheme.

You seem to know a lot about me without even having met me. What really seems to upset you, is that I know a lot more about the subject than you obviously do. Still, I wish we did not have to drag this down to a personal level.....

Yeah...right! Although I never even met you. It's quite said you don't have your facts straight! No, I think, I know a lot more about OTM and especially Anastasia more than you do! If you did, you wouldn't be believing in AA. Or, mentioning anything about Anastasia speaking any German. She never did! You don't want to see the truth!

An interesting aspect. You remember Moritz Furtmayr and his PIK method of making a face-print of people? Well, is so happens that his method was accepted by the German court in criminal cases. He also pointed out that AA and Anastasia had identical ears. Armed with that information, I think AA would have won her case if her supporters had decided to reopen it.

I don't agree. Dr. Furtmayr, believes AA was Anastasia. I don't think AA would have won her case because many of Anastasia's family members knew AA wasn't Anastasia. They were trying to work to end AA and her phony ways. They were really getting sick and tired of her trying to pretend to be a member of the Imperial family.[quote] Funny you should mention eyes, even Gilliard had to admit that her eyes looked like Anastasia's. [/quote]Right!Gilliard did say that. He said only the colour of their eyes were the same. Their eyes were shaped differently, though. But, the other features such as the lips, nose and mouth are different.
The patient had a long nose, strongly turned up at the end, a very large mouth, thick and fleshy lips; the grand duchess, on the other hand, had a short, sharp nose, a much smaller mouth and fine lips .... Apart from the colour of the eyes, we could find nothing to make us believe that this was the grand duchess.