Anna Anderson's claim to be Grand Duchess Anastasia

[tsarskoe]

Actually, yes there was a man who first who showed up who was later identified as Serge. Bear, (If my memory serves) I think that in one of my books there is a photocopy of this paper where he wrote the aforementioned words. Ill have to track it down.

There is also another man. One who visited Anna once in the early 1920's while AA was (I believe) Dalldorf). He was plainly clothed and spoke to AA in a language that the nurses did not know. I do not know which nurses were present since some of the nurses spoke Russian, Polish and of course all of them spoke German. I have often wondered if AA was in fact Franziska if she had not contacted her brother Felix and he had come to see her. Thus when he was summoned in the mid twenties to see her he would have been already aware of the situation. Pure speculation on my part.

[OlgaNikolaievna]

Originally Posted by tsarskoe

Actually, yes there was a man who first who showed up who was later identified as Serge. Bear, (If my memory serves) I think that in one of my books there is a photocopy of this paper where he wrote the aforementioned words. Ill have to track it down.

Identified as Serge Tchiakovsky of the Bolsheviks? Officially? Or just somebody claiming to be him? Whoever the person was, he was plainly pretending since the escaping story never occured. Most likely he was in on it with Clara.

There is also another man. One who visited Anna once in the early 1920's while AA was (I believe) Dalldorf). He was plainly clothed and spoke to AA in a language that the nurses did not know. I do not know which nurses were present since some of the nurses spoke Russian, Polish and of course all of them spoke German. I have often wondered if AA was in fact Franziska if she had not contacted her brother Felix and he had come to see her. Thus when he was summoned in the mid twenties to see her he would have been already aware of the situation. Pure speculation on my part.

I never heard that story before, thank you. Your theory is a good one. I also believe the nurses probably mistook Polish for Russian.

[tsarskoe]

OlgaNikolaivena please see Bear's earlier post for more details about the man who mysteriously showed up and then disappeared again never to be heard from again. He did exist (his true identity has never been established) and arrived at the Schwabes and Clara's. He did not identify himself as "Serge" but from what he said it was assumed by her supporters that it could only be "Serge".

Bear, fortunately my memory did serve me well--as I found the photo of the note "Serge" wrote on the back of Anna's photograph which he found in either Clara's flat or the Schwabe's home. It is in ANASTASIA SURVIVOR OF EKATERINBURG by Harriet von Rathlef-Keilmann.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...rskoe/note.jpg

I too wonder who this man was who wrote this inscription. It could have been a hoax; someone who read about the case in the papers and wrote these jumbled words on the photo. Perhaps it was Felix Schanzkowska under AA's direction. Or perhaps...?

Here is the photograph from La Fausse Anastasie showing the Empress in the car with the Swastika on the hood.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...rskoe/swaz.jpg

[AGRBear]

Evidently, I haven't been paying very much attention to the symbol on Alexandra's car.

Thankyou tsarskoe for the photo.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...rskoe/swaz.jpg


The hood ornament, which I assume is the swaztika, doesn't look quite right to me. It kind looks like it doesn't belong because the radiator cap is in the way. It also looks like someone has enhanced the swaztika so we can see it better.

Where was this photo found?

Are there other photos of this car showing the swaztika from a different angle?

AGRBear

[tsarskoe]

Yes, I definitely agree that the swaztika has been enhanced-as all of the photographs in Pierre Gilliard's book. I should point out the same is true for Harriet von Rathlef-Keilmann's book and for that matter most of the books with photographs during the early 1900's. The photo originally appeared in a collection of photographs published by "The Standard" by the Supreme Monarchist Council apparently printed in 1923. Which AA had seen according to Mr. Schwabe. Interesting to note, AA also had access to the Russian version of Pierre Gilliard's first book about his time with the Imperial family. In this book is a reproduction of the swaztika the Empress drew one on the wall of her bedroom in Ekaterinburg. Recall the similar story AA told (about the Empress carving the swaztika) to Alexei Volkov when he visited her while she was under Harriet von Rathlef's care-after her time spend with the Schwabes.

The car in question is a Dolaunay-Belleville and according to the account quoted in Pierre Gilliard's La Fausse Anastasie it was the only car befixed with a swaztika. The symbol had been given to the Empress by her brother GD Ernst and she instructed it to be placed on the Tsar's car.

[AGRBear]

Because the swaztika image bothered me yesterday, I enlarged the area.



To me it looks like a bad drawing. Why? It's not in perspective.

AGRBear

[AGRBear]

Originally Posted by AGRBear

Information in the mysterious visitor who left a photo and information that AA's child was in an orphanage in Galati.

I first turn to Kurth's book ANASTASIA where I recall reading the information for the first time.

p. 62
>>A young man had turned up at Clara Peuthert's apartment one morning, apparently having been sent there by the staff at the Dalldorf Asylum. At Clara's the stranger saw a photograph of Anastasia and said, "I know that lady." Then he broke into tears. On the back of the picture he scribbled the words, in pencil:

"Anastasia Nicolaieva...Alexanderva...Ivan...Alexev...Shorov... geb [born] Pittersburg."<<

>>Clara ...took the stranger to see Captain von Schwabe.... [ in part]...

AGRBear

From tsarskoe:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...rskoe/note.jpg


So, is this written in Russian or Polish?

Originally Posted by Russophile

Bear, what happened to Captain N. von Schwabe?

I don't recall. I'll have to check my notes.


AGRBear

[AGRBear]

Originally Posted by tsarskoe

Actually, yes there was a man who first who showed up who was later identified as Serge. .....

There is also another man. One who visited Anna once in the early 1920's while AA was (I believe) Dalldorf). He was plainly clothed and spoke to AA in a language that the nurses did not know. I do not know which nurses were present since some of the nurses spoke Russian, Polish and of course all of them spoke German.

....[in part]....

I don't recall reading about an earlier visitor at the hosptial or later at Dalldorf before Clara stirred things up in March. Do you recall where you read about this visitor?

AGRBear

[Pixilated]

I remember reading The Riddle of Anna Anderson when I was a teenager (ten years ago) and it just resonated with sadness, disturbance and unhappiness.To think a person could be that far gone to claim those things...really sad in all.

[tian]

Originally Posted by AGRBear

Evidently, I haven't been paying very much attention to the symbol on Alexandra's car.

Thankyou tsarskoe for the photo.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...rskoe/swaz.jpg


The hood ornament, which I assume is the swaztika, doesn't look quite right to me. It kind looks like it doesn't belong because the radiator cap is in the way. It also looks like someone has enhanced the swaztika so we can see it better.

Where was this photo found?

Are there other photos of this car showing the swaztika from a different angle?

AGRBear

Here's the picture without the drawing.

[tian]

Originally Posted by ChatNoir

From Harriet Rathlef Keilmann:

"I believe I can clearly recollect that, on the day when I was first given command of my regiment, I myself took charge of the parade on horseback." (In a letter dated 26th January, 1926, Mr. Gilliard conmfirmed to me that what she said was perfectly true.)

In Harriet Rathlef's book AA says that she was about fifteen when she got her regiment and that her sisters were much older when they got theirs. Actually, Anastasia got her regiment on her 14th birthday. Olga and Tatiana were both 13 years old and Maria got hers on her 13th birthday on 1912.
It seems that there was only one parade/review of the troops, on 5 August 1913, and only Olga and Tatiana took part in it.

[AGRBear]

Originally Posted by Russophile

Bear, what happened to Captain N. von Schwabe?

I don't have any notes on what happen to Captain Schwabe.

There is an article on his daughter Anastasia:
Information on Anastasia Geng

>>Anastasia's parents were both of Latvian origin but at the outbreak of the 1917 revolution they were living in St Petersburg, where Nicolai von Schwabe, Anastasia's father-to-be, was a young officer at the court of Tsar Nicolai II. They managed to flee from Russia and take refuge in Germany, where they got married in 1920. Anastasia was born on April 15th, 1922 in Berlin. She was named after her godmother, the alleged daughter of the Tsar, who was being cared for by Anastasia's parents. In 1923 Anastasia's brother Alexis was born. Sadly the marriage didn't last and Mrs von Schwabe went back to Riga with her children to live with her parents. There, at their grandparents' home, the children grew up with their Latvian grandparents, their German grandmother and a Russian nurse, thus learning three languages at the same time.<<

Evidently, the Capt. and his wife were divorsed.

I think we talked about the Schwabe family on AP but I don't recall what was posted. I'll see if I can find it.

AGRBear

[AGRBear]

Originally Posted by tian

In Harriet Rathlef's book AA says that she was about fifteen when she got her regiment and that her sisters were much older when they got theirs. Actually, Anastasia got her regiment on her 14th birthday. Olga and Tatiana were both 13 years old and Maria got hers on her 13th birthday on 1912.
It seems that there was only one parade/review of the troops, on 5 August 1913, and only Olga and Tatiana took part in it.

Olga 1911

From my forum:


Olga was born 1895

1895 to 1911 is 16 years.

Another post of mine on my forum:

>>...July, for example, she became commander-in-chief of the third Elizabetgradsky Hussars Regiment. One of her duties was to concern herself with the decoration of her regiment's uniform. And so in 1911, on the petition of their commander-in-chief, the troops were given short white fur-lined cloaks to be worn with full-dress uniform. The men expressed their gratitude with the following regimental song:

We Hussars are not of foil, We are all of damask steel How we value Olga's name Our white cloak and our flag of fame! <<

Source:
Alexander Palace:
Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaievna <<

RomanovsRussia :: Login

AGRBear

[AGRBear]

Subtract a year:

I'm told I need to make this CORRECTION:
1895 to 1910 made Olga 15.

>>"Tsarskoe Selo.

17/30 Jan. 1910, Monday.

My darling Louise [of Battenburg, aka Mountbatten, our cousin and daughter of Mama's older sister Victoria],

I thank you many times for the letter. I was very pleased to get it. Tell your Mama and Papa that my Papa for my namesday gave me the regiment which before commanded your Grandfather Uncle Alexander, the 8 Lancer Wosnecenski. I do not know how to write the name as it is difficult from the Russian. I am so delighted I have got my own regiment. Olga also got when she was as old as I the hussar regiment, so now we both have one.

How are you, dear? You said that you hoped that none of us would get chicken pox, but of course I got it from Anastasia which is a great bore.

From the 2nd Jan. Alexei and I went to bed and lay till the 12th. I got up just for my namesday. Then in between Anastasia lay and also had influenza but the whole time we were all together. Baby is lying till now. Marie is also in bed, only Olga, Mama and Papa were not lying till now.

On the 6th Jan. just before our lessons began Olga went to Petersburg in the evening to the theatre, and came back very late and had to lie in the stupid bed. Better in any case do not show to anyone this letter, perhaps it is dangerous as I have got still chicken pox. Mama is now a little better but it makes her tired running every day three times a day upstairs to us whilst we were all in bed. How is your Mama, Papa and all?

Tell Nona [Kerr, Aunt Victoria's lady-in-waiting] I am awfully sorry I did not thank her for the letter which she sent me with the socks but each time I began I tore it up as I did not like it. I want to see you awfully, Louise darling.

Now good bye, my dearest Louisechen. Much love and kisses to you all from your ever loving cousin,

Tatiana.

P.S. Love to Clayden [Louise's own maid]."<<

I do not know the book this source was found.

Is there another source as to when they had the chicken pox?


We know Tatiana didn't have her own guard until after Olga. She wrote in her diary on 20 April 1911 p. 342 of A LIFE LONG PASSION, NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA, THEIR OWN STORY by Maylunas and Mironenko:

>>I am also the second daughter and Olga was at the first so now it is my turn.<<

But when did she get her regiment?

And when did Tatiana get hers?

The 8th Cavalry Division/8-ya Kavaleriiskaya Diviziya.
8th Army Corps. Headquarters, Kishinev.
1st Brigade. Headquarters, Tiraspol:
8th HER IMPERIAL HIGHNESS GRAND DUCHESS TATIANA NIKOLAIEVNA'S Voznesensk Lancer Regiment.

[tian]

Originally Posted by AGRBear

Olga 1911

From my forum:


Olga was born 1895

1895 to 1911 is 16 years.

Another post of mine on my forum:

>>...July, for example, she became commander-in-chief of the third Elizabetgradsky Hussars Regiment. One of her duties was to concern herself with the decoration of her regiment's uniform. And so in 1911, on the petition of their commander-in-chief, the troops were given short white fur-lined cloaks to be worn with full-dress uniform. The men expressed their gratitude with the following regimental song:

We Hussars are not of foil, We are all of damask steel How we value Olga's name Our white cloak and our flag of fame! <<

Source:
Alexander Palace:
Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaievna <<

RomanovsRussia :: Login

AGRBear

The picture you posted was taken on 5 August 1913. See Olga's diary for more details.

"Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna became commander-in-chief of the 3rd Elizavetgradsky Hussars Regiment on 11 July 1909. One of her activities in this position was to concern herself with the decoration of her regiment's uniform. In 1911, on the petition of their most august commander-in-chief, the Elizavetgradsky troops were given short white fur-lined cloaks to be worn with full-dress uniform." Source Nicholas & Alexandra The Last Imperial Family of Tsarist Russia, page 192.

[AGRBear]

Olga was born 3 Nov 1895.

Her names name was the 12th of Jan 1910

Was the photo of 1911 showing Olga with her regiment and their new uniforms?


AGRBear

PS Tian posted while I was posting. She tell us photo was not taken in 1911 but 1913???
Sure a lot of corrections needed in various books!
Where would I find Olga's diary?

[tian]

Originally Posted by AGRBear

Olga was born 3 Nov 1895.

Her names name was the 12th of Jan 1910

Tatiana's name day was 12 January. Olga's was 11 July.

Originally Posted by AGRBear

PS Tian posted while I was posting. She tell us photo was not taken in 1911 but 1913???
Sure a lot of corrections needed in various books!
Where would I find Olga's diary?

You can purchase Olga's diary from Gilbert's Royal Books.
Gilbert's Royal Books - The Diary of Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaievna 1913 - Edited by Raegan Baker

More information about the reviewing of the troops in 1913.

Solodkoff, The Jewel Album of Tsar Nicholas II, page 225.
“Grand duchesses Olga and Tatiana wearing the uniforms of the Elizabethgrad Hussar and the Vosnessensky Lancer Regiments of which they were colonel-in-chief, Peterhof 1913. This being the first time performed their regimental duties, and proud of the beautifully tailored uniforms, their aunt [Irene] also took a photograph of them from the back.”

Marvin Lyons, Nicholas II The Last Tsar, page 103.
“Mounted and in their respective uniforms, they reviewed ‘their’ regiments at a mounted full-dress parade at Peterhof on 5 August 1913. Their grandmother, Marie Feodorovna, noted: ‘How delighted Olga, and Tatiana must have be to be able to review their regiments on horseback.’”

[tian]

Originally Posted by AGRBear

Subtract a year:

>>"Tsarskoe Selo.

17/30 Jan. 1910, Monday.
I thank you many times for the letter. I was very pleased to get it. Tell your Mama and Papa that my Papa for my namesday gave me the regiment which before commanded your Grandfather Uncle Alexander, the 8 Lancer Wosnecenski. I do not know how to write the name as it is difficult from the Russian. I am so delighted I have got my own regiment. Olga also got when she was as old as I the hussar regiment, so now we both have one.

We know Tatiana didn't have her own guard until after Olga. She wrote in her diary on 20 April 1911 p. 342 of A LIFE LONG PASSION, NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA, THEIR OWN STORY by Maylunas and Mironenko:

>>I am also the second daughter and Olga was at the first so now it is my turn.<<

But when did she get her regiment?

And when did Tatiana get hers?

This is how I thought the girls got their regiments:
Olga, 11 July 1909, her name day
Tatiana, 12 January 1911, her name day
Maria, 14 June 1912, her birthday
Anastasia, 5 June 1915, her birthday

But Tatiana writes to Louise that she got it in 1910.

[iakynthi]

I read in Wikipedia that Anastasia was born on the 18th of June.Maybe that's because there's a 13-day difference between the old and the new Gregorian calendar.But this means that nowadays we have to accept the 18th of June as her birthday,right?

[AGRBear]

Good grief! Things do get muddled. I was thinking Olga when I read Tatiana's words in the letter. Bear made another error!

Why on earth does Olga have a names day so far from her own birthday 3 Nov [O.S.] on 11 July?

By the way, when using the dates, the best way is to use both dates. This way it prevents confusion. There really is no right way or wrong way. I've forgotten the rule on this. Adding O.S. means old stlyle and N.S. means new style. I think using one or the other would makes things less confusing.

So when was Marie's and Anastasia's name days?

>>17/30 Jan. 1910, Monday.

My darling Louise [of Battenburg, aka Mountbatten, our cousin and daughter of Mama's older sister Victoria],

I thank you many times for the letter. I was very pleased to get it. Tell your Mama and Papa that my Papa for my namesday gave me the regiment which before commanded your Grandfather Uncle Alexander, the 8 Lancer Wosnecenski. I do not know how to write the name as it is difficult from the Russian. I am so delighted I have got my own regiment. Olga also got when she was as old as I the hussar regiment, so now we both have one. <<

That's what Tatiana said. Or that's what the source said and dated.

AGRBear