A potential bride for The Grand Duke Georgi

[NGalitzine]

^^^^
Best he finds one first.

 

[AceOfSpades]

Isn't one of the "conditions" of the Pauline Laws that in order for an HIH Grand Duke/Duchess of Russia to marry - that not only does the match have to be equal, but also has to be able to proven that the equality reaches back 8 generations on each parents genealogical family trees? Maybe I'm mistaken about this, but I could swear that I read that on this forum? Please correct this post if that's the case ..

 

[NGalitzine]

Possible but I dont believe so, they accepted the Leuchtenbergs after all. I think it is really just the status of the bride and her family and their ranking in the Gotha. Doubt if they would be put off by a mere countess in the background as long as her own family laws allowed it.

 

[Ceallach]

That is true. Leonida's mother was a polish countess - the other Romanovs would have brought up the eight generations thing with Leonida if that was the case.

 

[branchg]

No, that is not a requirement under the Pauline Laws. It is the birth status of the bride that matters.

Leonida is a whole other issue. There is no way Vladimir's marriage would have been accepted by a reigning Tsar as equal because the Bagration-Moukhranis were always nobility under the Russian Empire and a cadet line under the Gruzinsky Tsars of Georgia. They were not granted the rank and status of Prince/Princess of Georgia under the Treaty either.

 

[Marc23]

Isn't one of the "conditions" of the Pauline Laws that...the equality reaches back 8 generations on each parents genealogical family trees?

I don't think so...As someone said-there is the the Leuchtenberg case,but there is also later a Montenegro case(apart from being daughters of the Prince,later King,Princesses of Montenegro had no noble ancestry in European sense of the word) and there is a Serbian case when Prince Ioann of Russia married equally HRH Princess Helena of Serbia who also can't claim 8 nearest ancestors being all equal,or even noble...in European sense,of course,as their untitled ancestors were local "nobility"...

As far as Russian blood goes, Georgi and his mother have almost no Russian blood in their veins. Like most royals, they are primarily German in bloodline.

Well,Princess Leonida has descended from Dolgorukow family,so she has a bit of Russian blood...apart from her mainly Georgian and Polish blood Leonida has also some German blood from Baltic area...

 

[Ceallach]

I think that since Leonida's nephew Georgi, and now his son David have been officially recognized by Georgia as the would-be kings of Georgia, that is less of an issue now. It may reopen an issue, but it is one they have weathered before and has not prevented Maria from being considered by most, except certain relatives, as the would-be Tsarina. Any fuss made over Ines would be ignored as it is an issued that would be seen as settled. Where as another girl would probably come with her own new issues for Georgi unless he convinces Theodora to give up acting or waits for one of the other eastern European princess to grow up. She also comes with more royal blood than Leonida through her grandmother who was a Bavarian princess/Enfanta of Spain.

 

[branchg]

I agree Leonida's status is less of an issue now, especially given the fact that she is a princess of a formerly reigning house that is now recognized in Georgia as royal, in comparison to Vladimir's cousins who most definitely married Russian nobles that were subjects of the Tsar for centuries.

Georgi has to marry equally to strengthen the Vladimirovchi's claim in the future.

 

[Marc23]

We view things in a same way...also when registering after their wedding Emperor Nicholas suggested that Konstantin Bagration,the bridegroom of Tatiana Konstantinovna,signes the wedding register as "Prince Gruzinsky" (i.e. "Prince of Georgia") and assured Grand Duke Konstantin that "they would never look upon her marriage to Bagration as morganatic,because this House, like the House of Orleans, is descended from a once ruling dynasty."

 

[branchg]

Nicholas was fond of Grand Duke Constantine and Tatiana, but he did not accept her marriage as equal. She renounced her rights to the throne beforehand and he issued a decree confirming her style would be HH Princess Tatiana Bagration-Mouhkrani (she retained her rank as a Highness).

It was a marriage of good standing for a princess of the blood far from the succession.

 

[Kataryn]

It is highly unlikely (and imo totally out of the question) that Archduke Karl raises the descendants of Archduchesses to the rank of Archdukes/Archduchesses.
And however, they would still remain Princesses Galitzine, so part of the problem would still remain.

I agree this is highly unlikely but didn't Maria-Theresia's husband or her son on being ruling head of the Archiducal House of Austria raise Archduchess Maria-Christina's saxonian husband Duke of Teschen to Archduke of Austria-Teschen on his marriage?

 

[Ceallach]

We view things in a same way...also when registering after their wedding Emperor Nicholas suggested that Konstantin Bagration,the bridegroom of Tatiana Konstantinovna,signes the wedding register as "Prince Gruzinsky" (i.e. "Prince of Georgia") and assured Grand Duke Konstantin that "they would never look upon her marriage to Bagration as morganatic,because this House, like the House of Orleans, is descended from a once ruling dynasty."

I also find it interesting that the some of the people that attack her Georgian roots are hypocrites as they are descended from Montenegro - a monarchy which was overtaken by the king of Serbia but is now recognized again.

 

[Ceallach]

I agree this is highly unlikely but didn't Maria-Theresia's husband or her son on being ruling head of the Archiducal House of Austria raise Archduchess Maria-Christina's saxonian husband Duke of Teschen to Archduke of Austria-Teschen on his marriage?

And King Edward of Britain raised his niece Ena of Batenberg to HRH via her mother's line so she could wed Alfonso of Spain. It is something that has been done.

 

[Lumutqueen]

And King Edward of Britain raised his niece Ena of Batenberg to HRH via her mother's line so she could wed Alfonso of Spain. It is something that has been done.

Yeah 105 years ago in the UK, I doubt such a thing would occur in Austria.

 

[MAfan]

I agree this is highly unlikely but didn't Maria-Theresia's husband or her son on being ruling head of the Archiducal House of Austria raise Archduchess Maria-Christina's saxonian husband Duke of Teschen to Archduke of Austria-Teschen on his marriage?

No, as far as I know Prince Albert of Saxony has never been given the title of Archduke of Austria. The Archdukes of Austria-Teschen were the descendants of Archduke Karl (1771-1847), son of Emperor Leopold II, who had been adopted by Albert and Maria Christina and who succeeded to Alberto as Duke of Teschen at his death in 1822.

 

[branchg]

I also find it interesting that the some of the people that attack her Georgian roots are hypocrites as they are descended from Montenegro - a monarchy which was overtaken by the king of Serbia but is now recognized again.

No one is attacking Leonida's Georgian roots. The point Nicholas Romanov (and others) have made in the past is Vladimir's marriage was unequal under the Pauline Laws because the Bagration-Moukhrani line was nobility, not royalty, under the Russian Empire, which is true.

They were also non-reigning in Georgia for centuries as the Gruzinsky was the regnant line as Tsars of Georgia, even though the Moukhrani was senior genealogically. Today both lines have reunited in royal marriage and Georgia recognizes the family officially.

 

[branchg]

And King Edward of Britain raised his niece Ena of Batenberg to HRH via her mother's line so she could wed Alfonso of Spain. It is something that has been done.

Ena of Battenberg was marrying the King of Spain and Alfonso obviously approved of his own bride, who was a granddaughter of Queen Victoria and niece of a reigning King. His mother, Maria-Cristina, a former Archduchess of Austria, was displeased with her son's choice at first, but later accepted it.

Edward VII consented to the marriage and raised Ena's rank to HRH as a courtesy, but it wasn't necessary.

 

[Marc23]

Edward VII consented to the marriage and raised Ena's rank to HRH as a courtesy, but it wasn't necessary.

True,HRH wasn't necessary...Princess Cecilie von Salm-Salm was also a candidate for Alfonso and Ena's son and she was obviously considered good enough even though she belonged to a mediatized family...

 

[Marc23]

Nicholas was fond of Grand Duke Constantine and Tatiana, but he did not accept her marriage as equal. She renounced her rights to the throne beforehand and he issued a decree confirming her style would be HH Princess Tatiana Bagration-Mouhkrani (she retained her rank as a Highness).

It was a marriage of good standing for a princess of the blood far from the succession.

That's why it falls into "grey area"...there are facts which one can use for this claim and there are also facts which one can use against this claim!Somewhere in between...

 

[branchg]

It is usually the case that a woman of superior rank retains her precedence and style if marrying a man of lesser rank. Tatiana was a Princess of the Blood marrying a noble Prince and she remained Her Highness as a male-line great-granddaughter of a Tsar.

It was not an equal marriage under the Pauline Laws, but Nicholas had already issued a decree stating Princes and Princesses of the Blood could enter into unequal marriages to persons of good-standing with permission of the Emperor. Any issue of these marriages were not in succession to the throne.

 

[AristoCat]

I honestly think that Grand Duchess Olga was right when she was asked about it. It was her contention that there were no rightful heirs/heiresses and that it was best left alone for now.

 

[Marc23]

I honestly think that Grand Duchess Olga was right when she was asked about it. It was her contention that there were no rightful heirs/heiresses and that it was best left alone for now.

Where,when and to whom she said it?Thx

 

[AristoCat]

The sister of Nicholas II, in the book that she (Olga) worked on with an author before her death: http://www.amazon.com/Last-Grand-Du...=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1324827175&sr=1-2 It's such an awesome book and it's dictated by the Grand Duchess herself. You'll love it.

As for Georgi, he will have to get married when he's ready, no sooner.

 

[Lenora]

During her recent visit to Russia,the GD Maria Vladimirovna not only awarded the soldiers with the Order of Saint Nichola,but gave a short interview.In a short interview she said she hopes to return soon in Russia and finally answers the question about the potential daughter-in-law.
Here is a translation :
" Speaking of moms! In the summer you were guest at the wedding of Prince of Monaco with swimmer from South Africa. Could you allow your son to marry, as Albert or Prince William, a kind of Cinderella?

- Of course, we have family rules but do not know that the God would send him. The time will come - we shall see!"
http://translate.google.ru/translat...ttp://ural.kp.ru/daily/25808/2787595/&act=url

 

[AristoCat]

I wonder if she is going to end up arranging for her son to meet eligible women. It should be an interesting wedding.

 

[Benjamin]

Grand Duke George is apparently in a relationship with Rebecca Bettarini, daughter of the Italian Ambassador to Belgium Roberto Bettarini.

The couple earlier this year at the Brussels Antiques and Fine Art Fair: BRAFA 2012 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

[NGalitzine]

What will Mommy say??? OMG, she is not a princess, not of equal birth, there goes the dynasty !!!!!! Better get the smelling salts ready

 

[Artemisia]

As long as they don't get married...
Most probably, Maria Vladimirovna will find a minor Princess willing to enter an arranged marriage and sire an heir. Once the "job" is done, they can separate and Georgi would be free to marry whoever he would like, Princess or not.

 

[AristoCat]

I wonder how this mythical princess would end up feeling, being so brazenly used and then discarded.

 

[Artemisia]

I doubt she would be hurt because obviously it takes two to tango; a potential wife for Georgi would know exactly what she was getting into. What the benefits would be for her (if any) are only to be speculated.