A potential bride for The Grand Duke Georgi

[Tatiana Maria]

Still, I presume that Russian titles could be used in like manner in Germany. The points which were made by Countessmeout were that Jorge/Georgy cannot grant his future wife an official position in a reigning monarchy, and that a German title would be no more real than the Russian one.

[Duc_et_Pair]

But that counts for every French Comte, every Austrian Erzherzog, every German Freiherr and every Italian Marchese. In all these countries everyone is aware of their existence and yes, their titles are used in social context. No difference for that for a German Prince or a Russian Grand-Duke. The fact that Maria Vadimirovna Romanova and her son Georg/Georgy is received by Putin, by the Pope, is invited for royal, noble and other events already shows that they have a special position in society. That the Communist successor of the Russian tsarist empire decided to eliminate the aristocracy does not mean that the descendants of these often centuries old dynasties are no royals or aristocrats anymore.

[Tatiana Maria]

Your statements are accordant with her points and mine, as far as I can see.

[duke of poliganc]

Originally Posted by RoyalHighness 2002

Lady Gabriella "Ella" Windsor (Gabriella Marina Alexandra Ophelia; born 23 April 1981)
patronymic: Gabriella Mikhailovna, highly unlikely because on she is a lady.....

i think that wouldn't be a problem she can start using the title Her Highness Princess Gabriella of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha , duchess of saxony as she is a male line descendants of the house of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha .

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Do you say Mr and Mrs zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg? Or Mrs von Thurn und Taxis? Or Mr von Bayern? In the whole German society, including officials from the municipalities, the Länder, and the federal administration simply use their titles.

Also in public these titles are used, for an example in the publication of the death of Richard Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg. Note, his son now uses "Fürst" as title... (link)

Or the Government using the title and the HRH... (link) Or the President of Germany receiving Georg Friedrich and Sophie for dinner... (link) Or a German Baron (Freiherr) in the House of Representatives... (link)

Let us say: between the letter of the law and the daily life there is a lot of space...

No you wouldn't call them Von turn and taxis, because that isn't their name. Their name is Prince Von third and taxis. Prince is legally part of their last name,


Outside of Germany and royal circles, these titles mean nothing. Now if he was TAT and was worth billions, people would notice,

The point is this ere is an obvious difference between marrying an actual royal like Harry, and marrying a name only Royal. As HrH princess Harry you would be rev ignited all over the world. Do tours. Meet presidents (not just in your own country). And the only work you'd have to do is charity work.

Other than the odd society event or dinner, these former royals live private lives. They dork every day jobs. They walk down every day streets. If you are lucky once or twice a year you may get to attend a party where you get to wear a tiara and have a title on paper. Loses even more value when titles can be bought.

[Duc_et_Pair]

There are non-reigning royals living a more grand royal life than reigning royals. You make a characterization of it, while the future King of Great-Britain is also working as an air ambulance pilot, eats with his colleagues in the canteen and change in dressrooms after sports training sessions.

Prince Richard zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg, who passed away a few weeks ago, was one of Germany's biggest private landowners. The Hannovers, the Wittelsbachers, the Schaumburg-Lippes, the Württembergers, the Hohenzollerns, the Hessens, the Anhalts, the Waldeck-Pyrmonts and name them all often still have their ancestral properties, live in well-to-do circumstances (some of them still receive annual dotations from the Bundesländer as this was agreed after the end of the monarchies!).

We see the same generous attitudes towards the former royal families of Portugal, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia (Serbia), etc. where often arrangements were made concerning former properties which were looted or confiscated by nazis and/or communists. Especially the aristocrats in the East Bloc have lost all and everything and many of then are still in exhausting procedures to get their stolen properties back. But portraying as if it all means nothing, as you seem to do is not in line with reality.

Even the simple local aristocrat on that castle outside a village often has a prominent position. He is often the protector of local clubs, sometimes the local mayor, is into the regional political, financial, cultural and corporate web of the who-is-who.

Even in republican France, where "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité" is the mantra there are classes with invisible lines and the aristocratie still is very much a class on its own. Ask everyone in France, even in cosmopolitan Paris. And this wile the heads of the aristocrats have been chopped of and rolling in the streets. Think of the succesful movie Les Intouchables, where a man from the neglected Banlieues suddenly found himself working for a disabled, awesomely rich aristocrat in Paris' most posh arrondissement. No romantic fantasy but based on a real story.

There is a lot of window-dressing. An egalitarian society as a facadeoutside and at macro-level. The inside, at micro-level still shows a fine and longlasting spun web connecting the high and the mighty. This happens in France, in Italy, in Germany, in Austria, you simply need an antenna for it, to detect this specific layer in society.

[Al_bina]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

.... [snipped]
Even in republican France, where "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité" is the mantra there are classes with invisible lines and the aristocratie still is very much a class on its own. Ask everyone in France, even in cosmopolitan Paris. And this wile the heads of the aristocrats have been chopped of and rolling in the streets. Think of the succesful movie Les Intouchables, where a man from the neglected Banlieues suddenly found himself working for a disabled, awesomely rich aristocrat in Paris' most posh arrondissement. No romantic fantasy but based on a real story.

There is a lot of window-dressing. An egalitarian society as a facadeoutside and at macro-level. The inside, at micro-level still shows a fine and longlasting spun web connecting the high and the mighty. This happens in France, in Italy, in Germany, in Austria, you simply need an antenna for it, to detect this specific layer in society.

The lines in question are very thick and visible.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by duke of poliganc

i think that wouldn't be a problem she can start using the title Her Highness Princess Gabriella of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha , duchess of saxony as she is a male line descendants of the house of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha .

She could do that but I'm sure that, however unlikely a marriage between the two is, since she is a male-line descendant of the House of Windsor Maria Vladimirovna would accept her with open arms. Prince Michaels Russian ties would also be a big plus.
Besides rules like this can always be bent - when Crown prince Gustav of Sweden, who later had his sons & cousins thrown out of the line of succession for marrying unequally, wanted to marry Lady Louise Mountbatten she was in the end considered suitable since she was a member of the extended British Royal Family. Rumour has it that King George was furious and sent the Swedish Court a copy of the line of succession.

[nithsdale]

Originally Posted by JR76

She could do that but I'm sure that, however unlikely a marriage between the two is, since she is a male-line descendant of the House of Windsor Maria Vladimirovna would accept her with open arms. Prince Michaels Russian ties would also be a big plus.
Besides rules like this can always be bent - when Crown prince Gustav of Sweden, who later had his sons & cousins thrown out of the line of succession for marrying unequally, wanted to marry Lady Louise Mountbatten she was in the end considered suitable since she was a member of the extended British Royal Family. Rumour has it that King George was furious and sent the Swedish Court a copy of the line of succession.

I agree that Maria Wladimirovna would accept her. But what about her mother? Would Pss Marie-Christine accept him?

[JR76]

Originally Posted by nithsdale

I agree that Maria Wladimirovna would accept her. But what about her mother? Would Pss Marie-Christine accept him?

Could you honestly picture Marie-Christine disapprove of her daughter marrying a nobleman, a royal let alone the heir to the claimant of the Russian throne?! She'd shout it out from every rooftop between Kensington & Vladivostok.

[sjetajiem]

Lady Gabriella has a longtime relationship with Tom Kingston

[duke of poliganc]

Originally Posted by JR76

Could you honestly picture Marie-Christine disapprove of her daughter marrying a nobleman, a royal let alone the heir to the claimant of the Russian throne?! She'd shout it out from every rooftop between Kensington & Vladivostok.

so true .

[maria-olivia]

But he has a Partner !

[MAfan]

And Lady Gabriella has a partner as well; and also there there isn't anything suggesting that any kind of relationship between Georgi and Gabriella exists.

[JR76]

Originally Posted by MAfan

And Lady Gabriella has a partner as well; and also there there isn't anything suggesting that any kind of relationship between Georgi and Gabriella exists.

Well this whole thread is pure speculation isn't it.

[maria-olivia]

Georgi often comes to Belgium , he attends Princess Lea's Events. He is always with the same Lady but I forgot her name. I was told he is a nice Person.

[Benjamin]

Grand Duke George has been in a relationship with Rebecca Bettarini for some years now.

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by MAfan

And Lady Gabriella has a partner as well; and also there there isn't anything suggesting that any kind of relationship between Georgi and Gabriella exists.

One I believe her mother was said to have hinted about a coming engagement, or at least hopes.

[COUNTESS]

Or will ever exist.

[Marc23]

Well, one culd say that he is in similar situation like Prince Gustav zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg.

The only difference is that in Gustav's case, huge money is in question, since Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg family is net worth 600 Million Euros.