A potential bride for The Grand Duke Georgi

[COUNTESS]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

Well the Roumanians and the Habsburgs though no longer in power seem to have adapted to the modern world and allow members to marry who they wish. Michael even declares his eldest daughter heiress and a grandson by another daughter a prince. Karl Habsburg has apparently declared those previously considered morganauts to now be equals and titled as Archdukes and Archduchesses for whatever that is worth. Neither seem to believe governments are needed to regulate family members.

Exactly. The reality of the world today.

I never said Maria was a bad mother, I have no idea what kind of a mother she is, nor do you Ish. She may say his new girlfriend is wonderful and make this whole discussion moot.

[Ish]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

Well the Roumanians and the Habsburgs though no longer in power seem to have adapted to the modern world and allow members to marry who they wish. Michael even declares his eldest daughter heiress and a grandson by another daughter a prince. Karl Habsburg has apparently declared those previously considered morganauts to now be equals and titled as Archdukes and Archduchesses for whatever that is worth. Neither seem to believe governments are needed to regulate family members.

I think there are a few key differences here.

The big one is the apparent harmony in the different houses and whether or not the changes have been contested yet. In the case of Romania, there are a couple possible outcomes when Michael dies depending on the family dynamic. According to the old house rules, after Michael's death the heir is a member of the Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen family, but if they all refuse to accept the throne then Michael is allowed to nominate a foreign prince as his heir - he's chosen to nominate his eldest daughter. We can't say now whether or not this will be held up by Romanian monarchists following the death of Michael - I think there's a number of possible heirs who could be put forward and we could see a case of numerous pretenders depending on how different individuals feel following Michael's death and what support they're able to garner. We could see Karl Friedrich, Prince of Hohenzollern try to claim the throne, along with Princess Margarita of Romania, Prince Nicholas of Romania, or even Prince Paul of Romania.

Once again, with the Habsburgs the chance to contest the changes hasn't happened. The changes happened to allow the children of Karl von Habsburg to inherit, so it's not until Karl dies that that an opportunity to contest the succession can happen. Karl's marriage is not dynastic, so under the old succession rules his brother, Georg, would be his heir. Depending on how Georg feels about it on Karl's death he could contest Ferdinand's succession, and he may (or may not) gain support as such.

Within Russia there are already two contested heads of the house, Maria is just the more widely accepted one. Say Georgi marries unequally and Maria chooses to alter the succession to allow his children to one day inherit. Then when Georgi dies (assuming that everyone else in the lines of succession are still alive) there are several possible claimants through Maria's claim; Georgi's child, Karl Emich, Hereditary Prince of Leiningen, Prince Karl Wladimir of Yugoslavia, and Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia. Each one of them could claim to be the heir to Maria and Georgi. It's also possible that people, or at least some of them, who are currently supporting Maria and Georgi may decide to instead back the claims of Nicholas Romanov.

[branchg]

Karl Friedrich has already made it clear he does not consider himself or his family to be an heir to the Romanian throne and King Michael decreed the Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen House to be no longer in succession as there are heirs in descent from him, the last reigning King, that take precedence. So, there is no dispute there, except it depends on whether the Romanians ever choose to restore the monarchy and accept Michael's declaration of succession. That's entirely up to them.

Otto von Hapsburg had already declared Karl's marriage to be dynastic years ago. It was controversial with his family, but much like Maria Vladimirovna of Russia, there is no question Otto alone had the right to determine or declare any marriage equal or not. Karl is the Head of the House and can do whatever he likes with the House Laws.

Maria is morganatic under the Pauline Laws as is every living descendant in the male-line since 1917. There are no dynasts living and the succession technically would pass to Prince Alexander of Yugoslavia as his mother was the only descendant to make an equal and Orthodox marriage since the Revolution. His grandmother, Grand Duchess Helen Vladimirovna, is the last female-line dynast after Vladimir's death through whom the succession would flow if all male-lines are defunct.

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by Spheno

By marrying a Roman Catholic, Alexander (his children) lost his place in "line of succession" to the Russian thron.

I knew it cost him his place in the British succession (which he will soon get back) but this is the first I have heard about losing his place in succession to the non-exostent Russian throne. Why is that? He certainly would not be the first Russian dynast to marry someone who was not Russian Orthodox yet they all retained their place in the succession. Vladimirs wife Marie was Lutheran and did not convert to Russian Orthodoxy until many years into her marriage, yet Vladimir remained a dynast. His children even had succession rights even though the heir is supposed to be born of an Orthodox mother which Cyril was not.

[Spheno]

I deleted my previous comment, I can't prove my words right now

[branchg]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

I knew it cost him his place in the British succession (which he will soon get back) but this is the first I have heard about losing his place in succession to the non-exostent Russian throne. Why is that? He certainly would not be the first Russian dynast to marry someone who was not Russian Orthodox yet they all retained their place in the succession. Cyrils wife Marie was Lutheran and did not convert to Russian Orthodoxy until many years into her marriage, yet Cyril remained a dynast. His children even had succession rights even though the heir is supposed to be born of an Orthodox mother which Vladimir was not.

I think you mean Grand Duke Vladimir, Cyril's father. Maria Pavlovna remained Lutheran until 1905 when she converted to Orthodoxy. Cyril married Victoria Melita of Great Britain, who converted to Orthodoxy in France after her marriage, but before Vladimir and Kira were born. Nicholas II recognized them as dynasts in the Court Calendar.

[la vie en rose]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Listen, you are right, but dynastic rights to what? Maria is a self-serving poster child for attention. She has this idea that somewhere from outer space she will be the Tsarina of Russia. The time has gone, 100 years ago. The Romanovs were selfish and heartless and rarely had the insight to see the condition of their nation. Who would want them back? It is anachronistic. She is just a lonely old woman, I think she is younger than I, who has made her life around a myth. Her son seems like a lovely young man, this young lady looks like a lovely young woman, let them live in peace and happiness.

I do agree, times have changed a lot since 100 years ago and will change again in the future. I don't see any reason why monarchy would embody a future role in our world. Most probably a billioner's cabinet will be ruling the world in the future. don't forget that power comes (today as 500 years ago) from the control of the resources: who controles the resources is the one who has the power.

[la vie en rose]

btw another royal blog mentioning them...


DINASTÍAS | Los Foros de la Realeza • Ver Tema - RUSIA

and this is another link to an italian magazine in which there is an article of miss Bettarini in Luxembourg celebrating her anniversary in the Italian Embassy

http://www.etiquette.it/etiquettelug...uette_n.36.pdf
enjoy!

and a spanish hit list
http://noticierosalta.com.ar/los-die...-por-el-altar/

[USCtrojan]

Anymore news about the couple?

[AristoCat]

Not really; I wonder if whether or not it will end in an engagement.

GrandDuke, Rebecca Bettarini | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[Al_bina]

It would be nice. They look nice as a couple.

[AristoCat]

Yeah; she is Italian and it will be interesting to see how his mother reacts. Her entire schtick has been about being as Russian as humanely possible and go figure, her son ends up marrying a woman with no Russian blood or connections to Russia.

I wonder how well off she is; that is after all a bone of contention since Maria needs to be supported Imperial style, yes?

[Alexey 1904]

Maria is 59. She will be 60 on Dec.23. She has Mr. Putin as a close ally and friend. She'll never be lonely as long as she has his acquaintance.

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

In your opinion, will he have issue? I wish he would.
As I also wish Helen Kirby (his half-aunt) does as well...

[AristoCat]

So odd at his age how he's unmarried and not having kids while his peers are well married and some have children. Maybe because of his uncertain status it's difficult for him to get someone of high enough rank to ensure his disputed position?

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

What do you mean by 'uncertain status'?
But true, perhaps it is hard for him to find one.
Well what royals are also single and childless bachlorettes eligible for first marriage?

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan

In your opinion, will he have issue? I wish he would.
As I also wish Helen Kirby (his half-aunt) does as well...

Aunt Helen must be well into her 70s so I doubt she is a candidate for motherhood.
Do either Putin or Medvedev have any daughters of marrriagable age? Mama Maria would probably approve of a union between her imperial heritage and their power and access to wealth.

[AristoCat]

Marrying a daughter of Putin would cause a backlash since many Russians have demonstrated against his presidency.

Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan

What do you mean by 'uncertain status'?
But true, perhaps it is hard for him to find one.
Well what royals are also single and childless bachlorettes eligible for first marriage?

What I mean is that his position is uncertain; he calls himself the heir, but apparently there is Prince Rostislav, who is the one that the rest of the Romanovs rally around as rightful heir to becoming head of house. If he were undisputed Heir, then there would be plenty for him to end up choosing from and he might not want ot marry, but there would be a plentiful supply of women ready when he is ready to marry.

There are a variety of single women from dethroned royal families and there are the York princesses, who are apparently single and from a reigning royal house and could come with fat bank accounts.

[COUNTESS]

The York Princesses, as you have called them, would run in the other direction. He is not in their league. Although, he seems to be a very nice fellow. And not having a real throne, is not the problem, they will marry commoners and have their own lives, sans people like GD Maria.

[AristoCat]

Tehcnically George is a prince in his own right through his membership in the royal house of Georgia and they are ancient and nothing for the Windsors to sniff at.

Aside from that, who knows who he will marry.