A potential bride for The Grand Duke Georgi

[Marc23]

Originally Posted by branchg

I think that would be a problem for Maria because Elizabeth is a commoner, not born royal. In order for Georgi to continue the traditions of the Imperial House and uphold his branch's claim, his marriage cannot have any question of whether it was equal under the Pauline Laws.

But, of course, Michael of Romania is free to issue whatever decree he wishes with regard to the styles and titles of his descendants. If he wished to elevate any or all of his commoner grandchildren to royal rank, that is his perogative as Head of the Romanian Royal House and a former King.

I agree,but I also thought about how much problems would that create...Some would be for and some against...it would be something similar to Bagration case,where you have some ground to vote for and have some ground to vote against...

[AristoCat]

Some would be for and some against...it would be something similar to Bagration case,where you have some ground to vote for and have some ground to vote against...

I have to agree that in order to ensure that there are no problems in the future, Georgi needs an "HRH" that was born and bred a princess, reigning or dethroned. I find it pretty neat that he is interested in sticking to his dynastic expectations while the rest of these princes from reigning houses are apparently more interested in finding the worst they can find in order to marry.

[Marc23]

Originally Posted by AristoCat

while the rest of these princes from reigning houses are apparently more interested in finding the worst they can find in order to marry.

I couldn't agree more :-)

I would just make an exception of Belgium,wanting an exception in Luxembourg soon and just HOPING for one in "Russia"

[fearghas]

Originally Posted by Marc23

I couldn't agree more :-)

I would just make an exception of Belgium,wanting an exception in Luxembourg soon and just HOPING for one in "Russia"

You don't think Mary and Katherine are any good?

[AristoCat]

Originally Posted by Marc23

I couldn't agree more :-)
I would just make an exception of Belgium,wanting an exception in Luxembourg soon and just HOPING for one in "Russia"

Either way, it'll have to be a princess that is an undisputed princess and isn't just one that is created for the sake of a marriage. I'm just hopeful that he marries someone decent, not with her body spread all over the pages of a magazine and a long history of boyfriends and lovers that could fill the equivalent of the Encyclopedia Britannia. A Russian princess would anchor him to Russia all the more, lineally, than a foreign princess though, when you think about it.

[MarleneKoenig]

George lives in Brussels, where he works. Maria lives in Spain.

Originally Posted by AristoCat

Maria does certainly seem to keep him in a lockbox.

[MarleneKoenig]

karina is not royal. She was not raised to the rank of a princess.

Originally Posted by jonc93

Hmm the sister of Prince Nicolae of Romania would be a good choice, she's the daughter of a princess, Granddaughter of a king, and sister of the future head of the house, and they both have similar physical characteristics, and she is orthodox, or we can assume she is.

[COUNTESS]

No one is lining up.

[AristoCat]

Maybe there is something going on behind the scenes and potential wives are being discreetly tapped. Quite honestly I think he's probably going to be complacent about who his mother decides on. Here is a closeup of him: http://royaldish.com/index.php?topic=6591.15 you have to scroll down a little, but up close he has excellent skin and looks like he could be dashing if he lost quite a bit of weight. He is a Prince of Prussia and dethroned, so it's not like anything would be of significant public interest in that he is going to represent the nation specifically and therefore there are people who have an investment in making it their business who he marries. Maria strikes me as the one who is invested and will certainly as his mother make it her business and I don't see how on earth he really has to justify it to us or the general public.

You never know what is going on behind the scenes and the Romanovs are nothing if not secretive and discreet.

[Ceallach]

George in 2003.

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I believe, that he does not have to marry a royal princess just a royal dynast. Who counts as a dynast? The Russians use to count children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren of a monarch and at the British Royal Wedding they had the same qualifications in whom was there as part of the extended royal family. Most reigning royal families no longer eliminate the dynastic status of a member and offspring for a morgantic marriage anymore, and the non-reigning ones allow for marriages with nobility. If he is just looking for someone who meets the qualifications of Lady Gabriella Windsor then he has more choice and can focus on the girl.

In Belgium, he would be close to a bunch of royals and more not far off.

A good choice for him would be one of the daughters of Arch Duchess Maria Anna of Austria and Prince Peter Galitzine (Tatiana (84) Alexandra (86) Maria (88)). Maria Anna's mother was also a Russian noble - so they are 3/4 Russian and partially grew up in Russia yet are part of the Austrian royal family. Maria Anna grew up in Belgium and they partially grew up also in Luxembourg - so they have friends and family in Belgium and would at least visit and attend some events.

He may be expected to marry a dynast, but the Russian church and people will want someone Russian or with knowledge of Russia - who is or will convert to Russian Orthodox. Lady Gabriella Windsor supposedly spend time in Russia too learning Russia, and even the Belgian noble HGD Guillaume is rumoured to be with - Stephanie de Lannoy supposedly speaks Russian. So there could be others who speak Russian/have an interest in Russia that qualify as dynasts in or close to Belgium. That may be more important than finding a royal princess if you ever want to restore the monarchy.

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[Marc23]

Originally Posted by AristoCat

it'll have to be a princess that is an undisputed princess

I think that he could also marry a princess or even a countess,as long as she is from mediatized family,just in order to be equal!

Remember the writings from Prince Nicholas Romanoff where he wrote that one Countess von Harrach could be considered equal,unlike one Princess Obolensky!

Here is a quote:

"Russia, with its very Germanic notion of dynastic propriety, found itself accepting all the Almanach de Gotha rulings.

And so if some unfortunate Russian Grand Duke wanted to marry a Princess Obolensky, descendant of the Grand Dukes of Kiev, who reigned in Russia, at the time his Romanov ancestors were probably still lurking in the woods, draped in pelts or wading through the marshes of East Prussia or Pomerania, he would have had to change his plans.

That marriage would have been impossible, but an Austrian lady, say a daughter of an Illustrious Highness, Count von Harrach zu Rohrau und Thannhausen, lord of the county of Rohrau, Freiherr zu Prugg und Pürrhenstein, lord of Starkenbach, Jilenice, Sadowa & Storckow, would have been acceptable !"

[jonc93]

Originally Posted by MarleneKoenig

karina is not royal. She was not raised to the rank of a princess.

I never said she was, I said she's the daughter of a Princess, granddaughter of a King and sister of the future head of the Royal house. She's probably the closest he will get to a royal, and if they do pursue a relationship King Michael could very easily elevate her to a Royal Highness with the title of Princess, as he did to her brother.

[COUNTESS]

Look, he is a nice young man. I hope he finds someone for whom her cares and who cares for him. He is not going to be Tsar or anything close. Let him live his real life and not a fantasy concieved by his mother.

[NotAPretender]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Look, he is a nice young man. I hope he finds someone for whom her cares and who cares for him. He is not going to be Tsar or anything close. Let him live his real life and not a fantasy concieved by his mother.

Up to and including his choice of life partner - bride to his groom, or double-groom.

[HRHHermione]

Originally Posted by NotAPretender

Up to and including his choice of life partner - bride to his groom, or double-groom.

Absolutely!

[Marc23]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Look, he is a nice young man. I hope he finds someone for whom her cares and who cares for him. He is not going to be Tsar or anything close. Let him live his real life and not a fantasy concieved by his mother.

Imo,it's not just a matter of fantasy...better position,even as a claimant or Head of the family brings some kind of more attention in media,you tend to be more known and something like "more important" because of people knowing who and what you are,or represent,which can open many doors for you which could be closed if you were in different situation...In simple words-if you have a good propaganda it can bring more money or a position which you can use for making money

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Marc23

I think that he could also marry a princess or even a countess,as long as she is from mediatized family,just in order to be equal!

The Pauline Laws require a dynast to marry a person of "corresponding rank" from a royal or reigning house. That rules out an Illustrious Highness and Countess from a mediatized house because that person does not hold corresponding rank to an Imperial Highness and Grand Duke of Russia.

Georgi would have to marry a Princess from a former reigning house or grand duchy. That's it. If Maria changes the Laws to allow an unequal marriage for her son, then her entire claim to be the only remaining dynast in the family will crumble.

[Ceallach]

It does not matter what title you have when you are born, just when you get married. King Edward VII raised his niece Ena of Battenberg to royal princess in order to marry King Alfonso XIII of Spain. King Michael could elevate Karina, as could any other Monarch/would-be Monarch raise up a girl who was a member of that royal family. They may have to change succession laws regarding women, or morgantic marriages to do so; or even raise up others such as Karina's cousins. But many families are doing those things anyway.

What is more important is being part of a royal family cause titles vary generally from family to family and can be changed - eveyone is a princess in some families, others only children of males, while others such as the British have members who lack titles. Still to make a royal match, especially one that is desired by the couple, titles have been changed to make them a corresponding rank - it has been done and can be done.

[AristoCat]

Originally Posted by Marc23

I think that he could also marry a princess or even a countess,as long as she is from mediatized family,just in order to be equal!

Remember the writings from Prince Nicholas Romanoff where he wrote that one Countess von Harrach could be considered equal,unlike one Princess Obolensky!

Here is a quote:

"Russia, with its very Germanic notion of dynastic propriety, found itself accepting all the Almanach de Gotha rulings.

And so if some unfortunate Russian Grand Duke wanted to marry a Princess Obolensky, descendant of the Grand Dukes of Kiev, who reigned in Russia, at the time his Romanov ancestors were probably still lurking in the woods, draped in pelts or wading through the marshes of East Prussia or Pomerania, he would have had to change his plans.

That marriage would have been impossible, but an Austrian lady, say a daughter of an Illustrious Highness, Count von Harrach zu Rohrau und Thannhausen, lord of the county of Rohrau, Freiherr zu Prugg und Pürrhenstein, lord of Starkenbach, Jilenice, Sadowa & Storckow, would have been acceptable !"

I think Nicholas is right on this; a Princess Obolensky is in fact actually more Russian than a Romanov, would for some reason not be considered good enough, despite being from a family that was ruling while the Romanovs were considered nobodies? Prince Nicholas is accurate in a lot of things and I think that while a lot of the Russian nobility might be considered 'commoners,' I am of the view that the Russian nobility has to be the only nobility (that I know of right now) that has the title "Princess" among it's lower nobility below a Grand Duke and I personally think that Maria should unbend and encourage her son to get to know the Romanov side of the family and then end up hopefully having something come of that. An alliance with the 'other side' would end the dispute and inject some much needed Russian lineage into the kids he would have and if his mother wants a restoration so badly, well, quite frankly her son must marry someone with Russian lineage.

If he marries someone with German, or Prussian, or Greek, or any other foreign lineage, it will end up looking like past matches, where the Russian Tsars diluted their Russian lineage to a hundredth of real Russian blood and ended up making German and Prussian and Danish blood the dominant strain and I wonder if in time the Russian aspect of their lineage would have in fact been obliterated from all the marriages with German and Danish blood instead of any Russian at all. A Russian bride would in fact anchor him to Russia, anchor him to the people, and also make sure that the 'other side' is placated, which would be diplomatic. I am sure that a "HIH Princess Obolensky" would be better than trying for a foreign match and "Princess Obolensky" would still be a princess in her own right with her own "HIH" title. Maria should be as diplomatic as she can be and make some sort of sincere overture if she wants her son to be accepted as head of house.

Right now the other Romanovs are coalescing with Rostislav as their Head of House (of the Romanov Family Association) and I wonder if Rostislav's sister Alexandra would be a good match for him. Apparently she's a few years younger than Georgi and it would be brilliant from a social standpoint and eliminate the family rivalry in one fell swoop. If Georgi could be brought around to it, then it would end up ending a lot of bickering and add some balance to the whole situation.

[NGalitzine]

While I agree in principle that married to a Russian aristocrat would be a good thing, an Obolensky or a Galitzine or a Troubetskoy would not meet the Pauline Rules. Neither would marriage into another branch of the Romanov family because Maria says they are all morganauts due to their own parents or grandparents marriages (many of whom actually married Russian aristocrats) and not members of the Imperial Family. They really have backed themselves into a corner where the only option is to find some nice German princess who is willing to convert to Orthodoxy before giving birth to the next heir.