A potential bride for The Grand Duke Georgi

[BeatrixFan]

The thing is though, we're not talking about a man "in this day and age". George has been raised as his mother was, as his grandfather was, etc etc. With the staunch belief that he must marry equally and that he must marry Orthodox. And that these two things are essential. I haven't seen anything that suggests HIH opposes this.

A lot depends on whether Georgi wants to be the next dog in the manger, or if it's time to realize that the manger has long vanished, and that both he and his mother have been resting in air.

He's stated often enough that he does want to succeed his mother as head of the Imperial House and to carry on her work. And good luck to him. This also makes it fairly clear that he's no intention of "doing an Otto".

[NotAPretender]

Georgi & his mother are inextricably linked to each other; he's known no other major force or influence. I do wonder where she ends and he begins with the imperial dreams, which is why I hope that the right choice of partner (not meaning necessarily a "dynastic" one) could help him sort out which dreams are his, and which were mummy's.

[BeatrixFan]

Every interview he's ever given, he's only ever spoken about wanting to share his mother's work for representing Russia. And yet people still say that Maria's forcing him or that he doesn't care or that he's silly for carrying on if he does indeed carry on.....maybe he's actually happy and interested in his heritage? Or he might just love his mother and wants to make her happy?

[AristoCat]

I wonder if he would actually rather prefer a princess and not a commoner. He won't have to teach his new wife (if he marries a princess) anything about etiquette, manners, or about how to hold/carry herself. If he actually prefers a princess, what is wrong with that? If it's also what makes his mother happy, why not marry a princess and then have a harmonious family life as well?

[COUNTESS]

Right commoners live in caves and princesses in palaces. So, he should be careful, otherwise he might get a Maxima or a Mary or a Mette Marit, or even a Catherine who, apparently to the above, had to learn manners and how to carry themselves. He could marry Princess Beatrice who always is the epitome of elegance and manners, or Stephanie of Monaco, a true and virtuous gal or several of the other, very properly mannered and virtous princess standing in line for him. He has no throne, is not particularly wealthy, and not much to look at, so I think he can be very demanding. NotAPretender hit it right on the mark, he should live and be happy. I hope it does just that. He seem like a nice young man.

[BeatrixFan]

Monarchy doesn't play by common rules. That's why we have monarchies isn't it? Every institution has it's own criteria. You mention Catherine - what if she had been a Roman Catholic? William couldn't marry her. That's the British rule. The Russian rule is that George must marry an equal.

[AristoCat]

What if a princess did make him happy? What if a princess is what he truly wants? I never said that commoners should stay in caves or 'in their place' or at all not be married to a nice man. On the other hand, what exactly is wrong with a princess. Mette-Marit used to be a drug addict (as if they themselves don't have issues already) and ahd a kid out of wedlock with a convicted drug offender?

As for Georgi being a pretender, so what? He isn't much to look at, but should ALL princes be perfectly handsome? He might end up being better, or not, but he is quite the young man if he hasn't had a lot of love scandals and a lot of major porblems or baggage. He might not have mounds of cash, but should a prince automatically be wealthy, or if he doesn't, he isnt' worthy of a title? Money can't buy ancestors and money can't buy honor and decency.

a Maxima or a Mary or a Mette Marit, or even a Catherine who, apparently to the above, had to learn manners and how to carry themselves.

Exactly. By the time of their marriage, they should have had enough of an upbringing to know how to carry themselves as ladies. Maxima is different since she had a well bred upbringing and as for Kate, well, she should have been doing other things than partying all the time nad boozing it up like a total floozy. Frankly, it would be refreshing to see a princess that isn't out slurping alcohol. Princess Beatrice has apparently stopped boozing and exercises so seh isn't aas overweight and Princess Stephanie, well, she is a Grimaldi and that is an entirely different sphere of upbringing. Monarchies are supposed to be exclusive and the members well trained, so they are the best possible representatives. If Georgi is such a non-catch, why shouldn't he marry someone who won't judge him according to his means and his precarious claim on a throne that does not exist?

Lastly, how many of these commoner brides would look twice at the men they married if in fact they weren't heirs to reigning thrones? Mary didn't show an interest in Nikolaus of Greece, but rubbed against Felipe of Spain and then went after Frederick after Felipe didn't fall for the bait. So it's not like commoner brides have such pure motives all the time.

[COUNTESS]

I never said ths commoner brides have pure motives. I said they had just as much class and sometimes much more, than some one born to the "purple". Willem of Holland, Frederick of Denmark and Filipe of Spain are all good looking, which is no criteria. Just a statement, So, maybe there was attraction beyond their respective positions. Yes, Mette Marit, is to be admired for turning her life around and doing what it takes to be successful. And I do not know why you think Catherine was busy boozing. You have judged people without warrant. As for Georgi's illustrious ancestors, that money can't buy, they were bigots, violent, cruel, self-centered, egotisical men and women. Most without real honor.

As for "monarachy doesn't play by common rules", is just nonsense. They are no different than anyone else and they often have played by very base rules. We have monarchies, because their ancestors had the biggest swords and were the most forceful and violent. They took territories and rules and thus it evolved. What is left today in Wstern Europe, are the remnents of those people, who developed rules, to keep the lions share for themselves. Today's constitutional monarchies, I believe, will fade away, in the future. Their present heads are all very decent people.
As for Catherine being Catholic, she would have just converted. It wouldn't have been a big deal.

[BeatrixFan]

I don't think it is nonsense actually. Monarchs no longer reign because of their ancestors activities. Monarchs rule by consent of the people. I think you're making rather sweeping statements which are taking us way off topic. Bottom line - George doesn't need a pro-commoner marriage advocate group. He's already made it quite clear that he's devoted to the Imperial cause and I doubt very much he would throw it away by marrying a commoner.

[AristoCat]

It would just be nice ot have a princess with a scandal free past. Not all princesses are pure, but the majority of them like Mathilde don't being any problematic baggage with them. Why not a young woman who wears a tiara in her own right?

[COUNTESS]

Mathilde is lovely, but was not born a princess. Who? Do you think Madeleine would marry Georgi??

Yes, today, constitutional monarchs, "rule", by the will of their people. They do not "rule". At best they advise. There is a real government, those who are elected who, actually, make the laws. Who face the condemnation, who face the real problems of ruling. They leave the waving and ribbon cutting to the monarchs and their families. George could marry the Aga Khan, he will still be a pretender. No one is in a rush to put a Romanov or any other monarch in place in Russia.

[AristoCat]

I know. But he is still a prince and worth gossiping about.

[BeatrixFan]

Originally Posted by COUNTESS

Mathilde is lovely, but was not born a princess...

I think you miss the point. Whether George reigns or not, he's still bound by the house laws which he actually supports...

[COUNTESS]

I hope he supports. He is a loving son, his mother is in charge. It is his life to live as he pleases, you only get one and he seems to allow his mother's wishes to be his. Neither you nor I know what he, really, wants. By the time the demanding Maria is gone, he will have waited to fulfill her dreams and never been able to have his own. He seems sweet and kind, I think he deserves a life, even more than a wife.

[BeatrixFan]

Demanding? This old tune really gets tiresome after a while. There's no proof whatsoever that she's some matriarchal tyrant.

[AristoCat]

I don't think Maria is as much of a tyrant since he does have a job and accomplishments on his own. I think he needs a wife who will hlep him on his way, wherever he goes.

[jonc93]

I wonder what young princesses where at King Michaels birthday that he could have met? Didn't seem to be many but from all the events he attended this year he could have found some princess, he should ask his cousin the Prince of Prussia for tips on making an equal marriage.

[AristoCat]

I agree. I wonder what he himself would prefer in a wife, in regards to personality traits. I wonder if he would prefer a princess who has a career or does not have an extensive professional background.

[NotAPretender]

The stakes are either very high or very low, depending upon the viewpoint. They are very low, because let's face it, there is just about zero chance of monarchial restoration in Russia, no matter what deals with the devil are made (meaning the current regime.) They are very high because Maria has painted herself and Georgi in a corner on this; by continuing to hammer on the point of equal marriage and her own (self-proclaimed) exclusivity to the right to inherit, she's really made it impossible for her son to be able to find and marry anything "less" than Royalty.

Add to that, the fact that she has recently relaxed her stance on that to say (paraphrasing) that she will make a silk purse out of a sow's ear by upgrading the right choice of bride to accommodate Georgi, there is a element of kabuki theatre being introduced here that lessens whatever credibility remains on the Imperial issue.

If these two want to continue to "work for" Russia, then that's pretty groovy. They can do so without continuing the pretence of exclusivity and wunderbar about themselves.

Georgi would be a much better "help" to Russia in a relationship with an intellectual and emotional equal. I think that the right choice of brides who were not Royal were the making - the finishing - of Willam of Orange, of Haakon of Norway, of Felipe of Spain, and of Philippe of Belgium: married, all, to "commoners." Georgi stands a decent chance at a happy and bright future to look to those examples.

However, I'm not sure how on earth he might meet such fine examples of womanhood if all we ever see him around and about with, is Mummy. To quote Will of Will & Grace, "the only person I've seen more out with his mother, is Kevin Spacey."

[branchg]

The problem for Georgi is there may not be a royal bride available for him to marry. He has not been raised in Germany, the largest source of potential candidates, and there is little to no chance of him marrying a British, Greek or Danish royal. There is also the issue of converting to Orthodoxy.

Times have changed, but Maria will be very reluctant indeed to consent to a marriage for her son that is not equal. It will greatly weaken the Vladimirovchi claim if she were to issue a decree permitting it.