2009 Identification of the remains found in July 2007

[AGRBear]

Annoucement made March 19, 2008 from Russia:

RIA Novosti - Russia - Excavations for Romanov remains may resume in summer

>> ...[in part]....
Russia
Excavations for Romanov remains may resume in summer
16:33 | 19/ 03/ 2008


YEKATERINBURG, March 19 (RIA Novosti) - Archaeologists plan to resume excavations this summer in the southern Urals, where the remains of the last Russian tsar's children were allegedly found last July, a local archaeologist said Wednesday.<<



It appears the 2 pits will be examined, again, this coming summer.

[lexi4]

Bear,
Look at this line: "Nikolai Nevolin, the region's chief forensic expert, said in late January that DNA tests conducted in Yekaterinburg and Moscow proved positive. He added that the final results would be published in April or May of 2008."
Did I miss something? Did DNA testing conclude that the remains belonged to the two children? Or am I reading that wrong. If that is the case, why do they want to search for relics that might have belonged to the family?
Lexi

[Russophile]

I have doubts. You all know that. I think they botched the whole thing up again just to try and make themselves (The Russians) look good. But what does it matter?

[AnastasiaEvidence]

Those are indeed the remains of Anastasia and her brother Alexei. I am postive those are the two missing members of the imperial family.The imperial family didn't survive on that night.There's no need to suggest that.

[lexi4]

Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence

Those are indeed the remains of Anastasia and her brother Alexei. I am postive those are the two missing members of the imperial family.The imperial family didn't survive on that night.There's no need to suggest that.

Have you read or seen the DNA report for the latest remains of the young woman and you man? Is that why you are positive? If so, could you post a link?

[AnastasiaEvidence]

Yes as a matter of fact I can post a link from the Sydney Morning Herald. Even thought the results didn't come out I am postive that those are the bones of Anastasia and Alexei. Even before July 2007, I knew Anastasia was the missing girl from the grave all along.

Remains of Russian czar's heir found

The remains of the last czar's son and heir to the Russian throne, missing since the royal family was gunned down by Bolsheviks in a basement room nine decades ago, may have at last been found, an archaeologist has said.
Bones found in a burned area in the ground near Yekaterinburg, the city where Czar Nicholas II and his wife and children were held prisoner and shot in 1918, belong to a boy and a young woman roughly the ages of the czar's 13-year-old son Alexei and a daughter whose remains have also never been found, Sergei Pogorelov said.
If confirmed, the find would solve a persistent mystery and fill in a missing chapter in the story of the doomed family - victims of the violent 1917 Bolshevik Revolution that ushered in more than 70 years of Communist rule.
It comes almost a decade after remains identified as those of Nicholas, his wife and three of their daughters were reburied in a ceremony made possible by the Soviet collapse but shadowed by statements of doubt - including from within the Russian Orthodox Church - about their authenticity.
The spot where the remains were found this summer appears to correspond to a site described in writing by Yakov Yurovsky, the leader of the family's killers, said Pogorelov, deputy head of the archaeological research department at a regional centre for the preservation of historical and cultural monuments in Yekaterinburg.
"An anthropologist has determined that the bones belong to two young individuals - a young male he found was aged roughly 10-13 and a young woman about 18-23," he told NTV television by telephone.
Nicholas abdicated in 1917 as revolutionary fervor swept Russia, and he and his family were detained. The next year, they were sent to the Ural Mountains city of Yekaterinburg, where a firing squad executed them on July 17, 1918.
Historians say Communist guards lined up and shot Nicholas, his wife Alexandra, their five children and four attendants in a small room in the basement of a nobleman's house where they were held.
The bodies were loaded in a truck and initially disposed of in a mine shaft but then moved, according to most accounts.
The Bolsheviks who killed the czar apparently mutilated and hid the bodies because they did not want the remains of the family - especially those of the heir Alexei - to become objects of worship or spark opposition to their new regime.
Parts of the royal bodies were exhumed in 1991 - the year the Soviet Union fell apart, ending Communist rule - and reburied in the imperial-era capital, St Petersburg, in 1998.
But two skeletons have never been found - Alexei and a daughter scientists believe was Maria.
Scientific tests indicated the bones of Anastasia, a daughter some have said survived the shooting, were among the remains buried.
The Russian Orthodox Church canonised Nicholas, Alexandra, Alexei and his four sisters as martyrs in 2000.
But the church cited the two missing corpses and questions over whether the recovered bones were actually those of the royal family in its decision to scale down its participation in the 1998 burial ceremony.
Historian Edvard Radzinsky, the author of a book about Nicholas II, told NTV that if the remains are confirmed to those of Alexei and a sister, it would prove the authenticity of the earlier find by providing "documentary affirmation of what is written in Yurovsky's notes."
According to NTV, a 1934 report based on Yurovsky's words indicated that the bodies of nine victims were doused with sulfuric acid and buried along a road, while those of Alexei and a sister were burned and left in a pit nearby.

[AGRBear]

Originally Posted by lexi4

Bear,
Look at this line: "Nikolai Nevolin, the region's chief forensic expert, said in late January that DNA tests conducted in Yekaterinburg and Moscow proved positive. He added that the final results would be published in April or May of 2008."
Did I miss something? Did DNA testing conclude that the remains belonged to the two children? Or am I reading that wrong. If that is the case, why do they want to search for relics that might have belonged to the family?
Lexi

I don't believe the word "positive" means the test for DNA and mtDNA and hemophilia has been established and prove they are the missing royal children. I believe it just means that they achieved the extraction of some DNA.

From what I understand, it won't be until next month (April), May or even longer to establish that the two remains are the children of Nicholas II and Alexandra.


AGRBear

>> "There are plans to resume the excavations...to find items belonging to the Romanov family. This will make it clear whether the remains belong to the tsar's children," said Sergei Pogorelov, a senior archaeological expert at a local research center. <<

Addressing your question about returning to the two pits to "find items belonging to the Romanov family" is puzzling. It's not buttons or jewels or a sailor shirt which proves or disproves the remains are the two missing royal children of Nicholas II and Alexandra.

AGRBear

Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence

Those are indeed the remains of Anastasia and her brother Alexei. I am postive those are the two missing members of the imperial family.The imperial family didn't survive on that night.There's no need to suggest that.

Most of us realize that many of you already believe, without evidence of the DNA results, that the remains belong to Anastasia and Alexei. We respect your beliefs and need for a closure.

Some of us have a lot of questions, (DNA results, why are there two pits instead of one, etc. etc.), to be answered before we reach any kind of conclusion about the remains found in the two pits this last July.

AGRBear

[lexi4]

Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence

Yes as a matter of fact I can post a link from the Sydney Morning Herald. Even thought the results didn't come out I am postive that those are the bones of Anastasia and Alexei. Even before July 2007, I knew Anastasia was the missing girl from the grave all along...

Thank you for posting that article. As I expected, there is nothing conclusive yet. We have to wait. So while you may be very certain, I prefer to see what science tells us.
I do agree with bear that by the got positive results, they are talking about the DNA. The were able to get DNA from the bones they found. Time will tell.

[AnastasiaEvidence]

I don't have the lastest news. The DNA is still in process. We will have to wait a few more months. You are right, lexi4 time will tell. I respect your opinion it's best to see what science will tell us. I agree, Bear that it will probably take a couple more months for them to finnish the DNA tests. Well, I hope that I am right with my opinion. Some people think that those remains are of Mashka and Alexei.

[ChatNoir]

When the bones were found in July, 2007, we were promised DNA results by October. Then it was December. Then it was March. Now it is April/May. Must be hard to get the results they want.
(I guess this post will be removed promptly.)

ChatNoir

[AnastasiaEvidence]

Well, DNA does usually take a long time it isn't exactly known when it will be finnished because it take such a long time. Time will explain. According to the remains that were discovered in 1991, they were believed to be 9 of the 11 people murdered in the cellar room. Anastasia and Alexei's bodies were missing from the grave so the remains of July 2007 are most likely believed to be of Anastasia and Alexei.

[lexi4]

Originally Posted by ChatNoir

When the bones were found in July, 2007, we were promised DNA results by October. Then it was December. Then it was March. Now it is April/May. Must be hard to get the results they want.
(I guess this post will be removed promptly.)

ChatNoir

Let's not forget that they want to go back to the site and dig to see if they can find relics that belonged to the Imperial family. That in incredulous to me. Relics won't tell us anything. Oh, I almost forgot. They don't have the money to go back and dig for the relics. Isn't that wild?
This all sounds like to me the same botched up job the Russians did on the mass grave. This time, the finally sent samples to the U.S. because the Russian labs were unable to obtain the chemicals they needed to do proper testing.
My source for these statements: RIA Novosti - Russia - Excavations for Romanov remains may resume in summer

[AGRBear]

Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence

Yes as a matter of fact I can post a link from the Sydney Morning Herald. Even thought the results didn't come out I am postive that those are the bones of Anastasia and Alexei. Even before July 2007, I knew Anastasia was the missing girl from the grave all along.

Apparently AnastasiaEvidence is not aware that the Russians have never believed Anastasia was missing from the mass grave. They have believed that Maria was the missing GD. And, they continue to believe this, if one can believe the various new articles which have been issued since the findings of the two pits in July of 2007.

It was Dr. Maples, our American forenic scientists who worked with the IF bones, who clamed GD Maria was in the mass grave and believe GD Anastasia is the one missing.

AGRBear

[ChatNoir]

When I visited St. Petersburg last summer, the tour guide took us to the fortress of Sts. Peter and Paul, and of course, we visited the church and saw the last resting place of the Imperial Family. The guide gave us a short resume of the story behind the IF's entombment, and then proceeded to say that Alexei and Anastasia had never been found. I asked her if she did not mean Maria. "No", she said. "But as for the tombs, we just decided to leave it alone."
Interesting, ain't it.

ChatNoir

[lexi4]

Interesting, ain't it.

ChatNoir[/QUOTE]

So what did she mean by that?

[ChatNoir]

Originally Posted by lexi4

Interesting, ain't it.

ChatNoir

So what did she mean by that? [/quote]

Obviously, she meant that even the Russians do believe that it was Anastasia who was not in the grave.

ChatNoir

[lexi4]

Originally Posted by ChatNoir

So what did she mean by that?

Obviously, she meant that even the Russians do believe that it was Anastasia who was not in the grave.

ChatNoir[/QUOTE]

Oh! Duh! That's interesting.

[AGRBear]

Perhaps my broad generalization that the Russians didn't believe the missing remains was that of Anastasia was far to broad. Perhaps I should have said that the officials in charge of the excavations have reported that the missing body is that of GD Marie.

And, yes, Chat, I think it's interesting that a tour guide would say that, AND, be so open with her views.

AGRBear

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by AnastasiaEvidence

Those are indeed the remains of Anastasia and her brother Alexei. I am postive those are the two missing members of the imperial family.The imperial family didn't survive on that night.There's no need to suggest that.

I know you think that. But why is there such a mystery surrounding this event? I am still up in the air the Anna Anderson was Anastasia, that may not be resolved. Alexi was a hemophiliac, there is little chance he survived, but WHERE ARE THE BODIES? What if they were helped to safety, but died afterwards? Why don't we hear about this? Instead they always insist, without concrete proof, that they axed the entire family.
I would love to have this mystery cleared up, but, it continues. Fascinating, obsessive stuff!

[BorisRom]

Today many Russian radio stations and telechannels have transferred the message of the head of group on investigation (V.Solovev):
"Results of examinations of new Ekaterinburg remains confirm their accessory to Nikolay's II children", - public procecutor-criminalist Vladimir Sovovev said at a meeting with the governor of Sverdlovsk area Edward Rossel.
"Examinations show with a high share of probability, that in a burial place there were remains of Alexey and Maria", - it have informed the correspondent of ITAR-TASS in department of the information of the governor. According to Solovev, official results of examinations will be sounded only in a month. "By then examinations will be finally make both genetic, and historical ", - Vladimir Solovev has emphasized.
http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=174438&cid=1 (in Russian)