2009 Identification of the remains found in July 2007

[AGRBear]

Just a few days ago the Russians announced that they'd need to send the US labs more fragments because our labs was unable to draw DNA from the bones they had. And repeated the fact that the fragments were in terrible condition.

I'll see if I can find that article, again.

PS Here it is.

"Scientist unable to extract DNA from remains: in Russian"

YouTube - Scientist unable to extract DNA from remains: in Russian

Even if you cannot understand Russian, watch the video to see photos of a bullet, tooth and fragment of bones.

AGRBear

[BorisRom]

Originally Posted by AGRBear

Even if you cannot understand Russian, watch the video to see photos of a bullet, tooth and fragment of bones.
AGRBear

(in my translation):
<<Correspondents of NTV (Anton Volsky and Dmitry Volkov) inform from
Washington:
The identification laboratory of Armed forces of the USA (Washington)
has informed, that their scientists could not allocate DNA from
fragments of bones of new "Ekaterinburg remains" (which have been
found the last summer) - as these fragments are too small also their
condition are too bad.
Russian scientists have defined, that only the third (30%) from 46
fragments of bones of new remains was suitable for the analysis. Two
(or three) fragments of these suitable bones have been sent in the USA
and its have appeared unsuitable for the analysis.
Some new fragments of these bones will be sent in the USA (from
Ekaterinburg) within the next few days. Russian scientists (in
Ekaterinburg) will be ready to declare their own results in the near
future.
The analysis of DNA will be made also in London (after carrying out of
analyses in the USA and in Russia)>>.
Correspondents of NTV have mentioned also «a verdict Massachuset's
laboratory», but they have not told an essence of this verdict.

[lexi4]

Looks like they struck out.

[norwegianne]

DNA tests carried out by a U.S. laboratory prove that bone fragments exhumed last year belong to two children of Czar Nicholas II, putting to rest questions about what happened to Russia's last royal family, a regional governor said Wednesday.

The Associated Press: DNA confirms IDs of czar&#39;s children

Also: Bloomberg.com: Europe

[morhange]

Wonderful news! Here's an article from Yahoo: DNA confirms IDs of czar's children - Yahoo! News

I see most news outlets reporting it was Maria's body found, and not Anastasia's. But still, this should put and end to speculations about survivors. There will always be skeptics, but I'm glad that science has given the definitive answer. Now the only question is when Alexei and Maria will be interred at S. Peter & Paul's to join their parents and sisters.

[colynsmomma]

DNA confirms IDs of czar's children

Published: 4/30/08, 10:46 AM EDT
By MIKE ECKEL

MOSCOW (AP) - DNA tests carried out by a U.S. laboratory prove that bone fragments exhumed last year belong to two children of Czar Nicholas II, putting to rest questions about what happened to Russia's last royal family, a regional governor said Wednesday.
Bone fragments dug up near the Ural Mountains city of Yekaterinburg are indeed those of Crown Prince Alexei and his sister, Maria, whose remains had been missing since the family was murdered in 1918 as Russia descended into civil war, said Eduard Rossel, governor of the Sverdlovsk region.
"We have now found the entire family," he told reporters in Yekaterinburg, 900 miles east of Moscow.
The confirmation could bring the tortured history of the Russian imperial family closer to closure and end royal supporters' persistent hopes that members of the czar's immediate family survived the massacre.
Nicholas II abdicated in 1917 as revolutionary fervor swept Russia, and he and his family were detained. The czar; his wife, Alexandra, and their son and four daughters were fatally shot on July 17, 1918, in a basement room of the merchant's house where they were being held in Yekaterinburg
The remains of Nicholas, Alexandra and three of their daughters were unearthed in Yekaterinburg in 1991 as the Soviet Union was collapsing. After genetic tests convinced forensics experts of their authenticity, they were buried in 1998 in a cathedral in the imperial capital of St. Petersburg.
The Russian Orthodox Church canonized Nicholas and his family in 2000, even as it expressed doubts that the remains were indeed those of the czar's family.
The remains of Alexei and Maria, however, had never been located, leading to decades of speculation that perhaps one or both had survived.
Last summer, researchers dug up the bone shards near Yekaterinburg and enlisted Russian and U.S. laboratories to conduct DNA tests.
"The main genetic laboratory in the United States has concluded its work with a full confirmation of our own laboratories' work," Rossel told reporters. "This has confirmed that indeed it is the children.
It was unclear which laboratory Rossel was referring to but a genetic research team working at the University of Massachusetts Medical School has been involved in the process.
The press service for Russian Orthodox Church said no one could comment on the discovery.

[BorisRom]

All the Russian radio stations and telechannels transfer the news from Ekaterinburg. The correspondent of TV NTV (from the USA) has informed, that any of three foreign laboratories (two in the USA and one in Austria) did not inform results of the researches and did not send them to Russia. The military laboratory (Washington) has not finished the researches; the Austrian laboratory even yet did not begin.
So, governor Edward Rossel gives out desirable for valid?
All Russian radio stations and telechannels tell also about a fire in a memorial complex in Ganina Hole. The memorial complex has strongly suffered from a fire. Everyone consider it as a bad mystical sign (concurrence) to the application of governor Rossel.

[lucien]

Interfax-Religion

Report from Interfax.

CNN today.
Discovery solves mystery of last Czar's family - CNN.com

[ChatNoir]

Hmmm, maybe somebody could give us the NAME of that U.S laboratory that released the news. And the name of the scientists involved.
Thank you.

ChatNoir

[RhapsodyBrat]

I just read the news in my paper this morning. This means all family members are now accounted for, right?

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by RhapsodyBrat

I just read the news in my paper this morning. This means all family members are now accounted for, right?

Sorry, but no.
Read here:
Press Release

[OlgaNikolaievna]

RhapsodyBrat, I wouldn't say the answer is 'no.' The news stories from various reputable wires are very clear, the tests done by the Russians and the tests done by one US lab show that the bones found last year match those of the Imperial Family found in 1991. That means, as the governor said, 'we now have the whole family.' What the SEARCH foundation is saying is that they believe that we should wait until additional testing is done and all of the work is peer reviewed before a final statement is made, making the results above reproach and without question. This is necessary because of the historical significance, and because supporters of various claimants will try to discredit the testing. What we have now is about what we had when the first Anderson tests were done in 1994, before they were also run in other labs which came to the same conclusion. The Russians knew weeks ago that their scientists had found a match, and stories leaked to the press at that time. Since then, an American lab has gotten the same results as the Russian lab, which according to the Sverdlovsk governor, is enough to rule that the remains are those of the Romanov children. As more tests are done, we will also be hearing about those results. Once it's all done, and the peer review is completed, hopefully the story can finally be laid to rest.

[ChatNoir]

Then maybe Miss Olga could give us the name of the laboratories and the scientists involved. I am waiting....

[J Kendrick]

The news reports out of Russia are premature

Please see the latest Press release (May 1 2008) from SEARCH:

From the Scientific Expedition to Account for the Romanov Children
(S.E.A.R.CH.) Press Release

JK


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - May 1, 2008

Update on the DNA studies of the Russian Royal family remains

The SEARCH Foundation, Inc. has been the coordinator of the DNA validation process for the recently-discovered remains of two possible members of the Romanoff family.

Edward Rossel, Governor of the Ural Region of Russia, has announced his belief that the two sets of remains recently discovered on the Koptiaki Road north of Yekaterinburg are those of the Tsarevich Alexis and the Grand Duchess Maria.

Much as the SEARCH Foundation fervently wishes for this result to be proven conclusively, "we can't confirm [these results] until all the independent labs have completed testing" said Captain Peter Sarandinaki, Director of the SEARCH Foundation.

Rigorous scientific research is necessary because, as he continued, "some of [these bones] were burnt...and work is still being done...We can't confirm [these results] until all the independent labs have completed testing."

Scientific evaluation is being conducted by three world-class independent
laboratories: :the US Army DNA lab in Rockville, Md., the University of
Innsbruck DNA Laboratory, Austria and the Russian DNA laboratory in Moscow with a facility also at University of Massachusetts.

Captain Sarandinaki concluded that "Once these three laboratories complete their DNA testing and their results are certified by Dr. Peter Gill, from Great Britain, who did the initial DNA studies on the first set of remains, an official announcement as to the scientific findings will be made by the Most Senior Investigator for Special Cases, Vladimir Solovyev."

Captain Peter Sarandinaki, Director
The SEARCH Foundation

-30-

[OlgaNikolaievna]

I already addressed that in my previous post.

Originally Posted by OlgaNikolaievna

What the SEARCH foundation is saying is that they believe that we should wait until additional testing is done and all of the work is peer reviewed before a final statement is made, making the results above reproach and without question. This is necessary because of the historical significance, and because supporters of various claimants will try to discredit the testing.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by ChatNoir

Then maybe Miss Olga could give us the name of the laboratories and the scientists involved. I am waiting....

The member you refer to is OlgaNikolaievna.
Politeness never goes astray, nor does a convivial tone.

Warren
Administrator

[LadyCat]

Just so I'm clear, sorry but this is making my head spin just a bit--

The set of remains most recently discovered have been semi-officially declared to be the remains of Alexei and Maria? I understand the earlier remains found have already been confirmed as the Tsar, Alix, Olga, Anastasia and Tatiana, though I don't get how "they" know which of the girls were found in which pit/grave.

Cat

[ChatNoir]

Originally Posted by Warren

The member you refer to is OlgaNikolaievna.
Politeness never goes astray, nor does a convivial tone.

Warren
Administrator

Then maybe somebody can tell me the name of that laboratory very politely and in a convivial tone.
Thank you in advance.

ChatNoir

[norwegianne]

Originally Posted by ChatNoir

Then maybe somebody can tell me the name of that laboratory very politely and in a convivial tone.
Thank you in advance.

ChatNoir

The laboratories were named in the press release posted by another member:

Scientific evaluation is being conducted by three world-class independent
laboratories: :the US Army DNA lab in Rockville, Md., the University of
Innsbruck DNA Laboratory, Austria and the Russian DNA laboratory in Moscow with a facility also at University of Massachusetts

[AGRBear]

>>Scientific evaluation is being conducted by three world-class independent
laboratories: :the US Army DNA lab in Rockville, Md., the University of
Innsbruck DNA Laboratory, Austria and the Russian DNA laboratory in Moscow with a facility also at University of Massachusetts<<

As far as we know, these labs have not yet completed their tests, and, none of these labs were named in the latest annoucement on 30 April 2008 by Rossel in the new article:
>>DNA confirms IDs of czar's children

Published: 4/30/08, 10:46 AM EDT
By MIKE ECKEL<<

As far as most of us know, the labs in the US could not draw DNA out of the first samples sent by the Russians and new samples were being sent. Therefore, it appears from where I'm sitting that Rossel is "jumping the gun" with this annoucement of 30 April 2008 which seems to be producing misinformation and doing more harm than good for all concern.

I agree with the SEARCH annoucement, which appears to be less political and voices caution in making any conclusion without knowing all the information:

>> Much as the SEARCH Foundation fervently wishes for this result to be proven conclusively, "we can't confirm [these results] until all the independent labs have completed testing" said Captain Peter Sarandinaki, Director of the SEARCH Foundation.

Rigorous scientific research is necessary because, as he continued, "some of [these bones] were burnt...and work is still being done...We can't confirm [these results] until all the independent labs have completed testing."<<

AGRBear