The Ottonian Dynasty (Holy Roman Empire 919-1024) & Germanic Medieval Dynasties

[Marengo]

This thread is dedicated to the Ottonians.

From wikipedia:

The Ottonian dynasty was a dynasty of Germanic Kings (919-1024), named after its first emperor but also known as the Saxon dynasty after the family's origin. The family itself is also sometimes known as the Liudolfings, after its earliest known member Liudolf and one of its primary leading-names. The Ottonian rulers are also regarded as the first dynasty of the Holy Roman Empire, as successors of the Carolingian dynasty and Charlemagne, who is commonly viewed as the original founder of a new (Frankish) Roman Empire.

Read more here: Ottonian dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Marengo]

The grave of Queen Editha (Edith of Wessex) has been found in the cathedral of Magdeburg. Edith (910-946) was the daughter of the English king Edward the Elder and a half sister of king Athelstan of England.

In 929 king Henry the Fowler of East Francia (more or less the present Germany) sent an envoy to England find a bride for his son Otto. Athelstan sent two of his half sisters (Edith and probably Hedwig, who later would be Queen of France) to Germany. Otto picked Edith and they amrried in 929. She received the city of Magdeburg as a wedding present.

In 936 Otto became king of East Francia and in 962 became Holy Roman Emperor.

courtesy: monarchen.nl

[Warren]

Line of Descent showing the Carolingian, Ottonian, Salian and Hohenstaufen Dynasties

From Wikipedia - reproduced under the GNU Free Documemntation Licence
.

[principessa]

Magdeburger-Zeitung.de is reporting that for the design of a new coffin of Queen Editha (910-946) a competition is planned.

Google Nachricht

[knomeone]

Thank you for this forum ,
I know I am a descendant from this branch which is my understanding through Conrad we were the Patrician Family of Friobourg,Switzerland
Yet my Grand mother Constance von K.....insists Switzerland did have a monarchy her grand father John..and grand mother Louse where the last
perhaps it was her thinking of Frederick the Holy Roman Emperor at the time granting statehood to several cantons of Switzerland...any help?

[Kit]

Switzerland never was a monarchy, that's for sure.

[knomeone]

yes i do agree but its my understanding they have or had patricians ..
what are your thoughts about that>/

[Kit]

in the german and english wikipedia you can read quite a lot about Freiburg (that is the way the town is officially called in German) in Switzerland. It also lists several patrician families (there were about 60 different patrician families and not just one or two) and also a list of the town's Mayors. The name von Kaenal doesn't appear, but maybe it will help you nevertheless ...
here are the links: Freiburg im Üechtland
and the english page: Fribourg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[PrincessKaimi]

Switzerland is interesting and complicated, isn't it? Sort of like Wales. Parts of Wales had people who called themselves "King" like Owain ap Gruffydd - or at least, that's how many scholars translate the Welsh term. Yet, Wikipedia calls him "Prince" since Wales wasn't united into a "kingdom."

What makes a king? The words "king" and "monarch" are English. Neither the Welsh nor the Swiss speak English. The Holy Roman Emperor ruled over a territory much larger than anything like modern Germany - and his name was translated into several languages - but certainly, the English word "Emperor" was not used. I'd love to know what the word was in Old German and Old French (which would have been spoken in Switzerland, both languages).

Kaiser/Tsar? (Same word, IMO).

If so, what was Emperor?

[PrincessKaimi]

P.S. Wikipedia has kingly dynasties named after emperors/imperial dynasties with no explanation of the difference. Feel free to edit wikipedia, which is mostly borrowed from Britannica and then edited by college students.

[Warren]

This answers some questions but not others...

'A Glossary of European Noble, Princely, Royal and Imperial Titles"

-> A Glossary of European Noble, Princely, Royal and Imperial Titles


This is better, more detailed:

"Royal Styles"

-> Royal Styles

[PrincessKaimi]

Warren, as usual, a big thanks!

Let's see if I can use my new knowledge. So, at one time, Switzerland had an emperor (by conquest): Tiberius. Then later, a...sovereign (Charlemagne - whose title is either Emperor or King...) Charlemagne was definitely a monarch and had Switzerland as a domain at one point.

So Switzerland was, at some point, made into a monarchy (through conquest). When it ceased being a vassal state of Charlemagne, it was divided among the sons of Louis the Pious (...I believe the two rulers were called Kings...so still a monarchy). However, some historians call the rulers "Emperors" (still a form of monarchy, right? But emperors instead of kings).

At any rate, it seems clear that at some point the land we today know as Switzerland was not only under a monarchy, but was divided into parts. The part known as Middle Francia was apparently quite diverse ethnically - and actually managed to conquer both Aachen/Aix-en-Provence (today in Germany) and Rome. So Switzerland was once the seat of a monarchy with quite far-reaching geography territory.

The Holy Roman Emperor took over the entire territory of both Switzerlands in the year 1000...would we call that a monarchic state or a imperial state? Imperial, maybe? I'm still confused about what's a monarchy.

At any rate, Switzerland came under Hapsburg control in 1264 and they called themselves Emperors.

So perhaps Switzerland was never a monarchy but often an empire or part of one?

(At any rate, ruling entity was inherited, which is what monarchy means to me).

[PrincessKaimi]

P.S., I realize that Switzerland was one of the early places to become a confederacy of states - each ruled by coequal ruling houses - as opposed to a monarchy (1291? 1353 for sure).

[Warren]

Switzerland was never a monarchy in its own right, ie there was never a "Duke of Switzerland" or "King of Switzerland" or any local (native) monarchical form of government.
The country was a province or territory of other empires (Roman, Frankish, Holy Roman) or kingdoms (Alemannia, Burgundy). As the Swiss cantons began to cooperate among themselves as a confederacy their power grew until at first defacto and later legal independence was achieved.

In 1264 the Habsburgs were still relatively unimportant Counts of Habsburg before organising their various domains into the Duchy of Austria. They didn't become permanent Holy Roman Emperors until 1438.

[knomeone]

Your all so very helpful...
I'm starting to dig into my family history's ... geesh what a challenge ..
I do know the civil war in Switzerland where several Cantons tried to break away including Friobourg ,which my family where the Patricians ,was some how directly related to the habsburgs and the jesuits.... and my grandfather fought them and one yet the history books only mention's a " Federal Deity"..ok....who was he was that...? my grandfather...? Why was my grandfather his son.. called a prince and while living in Bern not allowed to carry money? He had a credit card in the late 1800"s and early 1900's....and the state paid all his bill's...really...?trying to find information on them is like finding a ghost....yet it's so curious...something is missing....My Grandmother Constance which is named after the lake which bears her grand mothers name and according to her there is another lake Lousie in Switzerland ...which was named after another one of my grand mothers... I cant find it only Louvie...

[Nice Nofret]

Hello Knomeone

It is highly unlikly that your grandfather fought in the last war between different Swiss-Kantone .. they happend in the 17th century .. so nice stories but not founded in Swiss history.

Von Kennel is an widespread Swiss Name

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweiz
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg_im_%C3%9Cechtland

the leading families of Fribourg were about 60 Families since the late 14. century: Gottrau, Lanthen, Affry, Diesbach, Von der Weid, Fegeli und Weck, Maggenberg, Düdingen/Velga, Montenach, Englisberg und Praroman

[knomeone]

correction ..great great grand father ,,

[CyrilVladisla]

Holy Roman Emperor Otto III was crowned on Christmas Day, the same day the original Holy Roman Emperor Charlemagne was crowned.