Duke Franz and the Royal House of Bavaria 1: Ending 2021


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Duc_et_Pair said:
That is not the way how it works. It is the same as saying: ow... Prince Charles is already 70, we better make his son Prince William the new King after Elizabeth II. The succession simply follows the established path. And it will go to Prince Luitpold after Duke Max, alike it will go to Prince William after Prince Charles.
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Correct. That is how agnatic succession works.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
That is not the way how it works. It is the same as saying: ow... Prince Charles is already 70, we better make his son Prince William the new King after Elizabeth II. The succession simply follows the established path. And it will go to Prince Luitpold after Duke Max, alike it will go to Prince William after Prince Charles.
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I'm very well aware about how such succession works. But I read somewhere before that Duke Max, by a House-internal decree, bill, document or whatever, renounced his rights for succession in favor of their cousin Prince Luitpold.
Unfortunately I have no idea where I read it, so I also can't check it anymore and therefor I was hoping someone in here could help me with that.
 
Ralf said:
I'm very well aware about how such succession works. But I read somewhere before that Duke Max, by a House-internal decree, bill, document or whatever, renounced his rights for succession in favor of their cousin Prince Luitpold.
Unfortunately I have no idea where I read it, so I also can't check it anymore and therefor I was hoping someone in here could help me with that.
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Perhaps Duke Max has rennounced his rights, perhaps he has not. But even if he has it is not public known. We will have to wait and see what happens after the death of Duke Franz.
Waht i have heard from people who know such things is that Duke Franz has taken Prince Luitpold's son Prince Ludwig under his wings and helped him to prepare for his future role as Head of the House.
 
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Stefan said:
Waht i have heard from people who know such things is that Duke Franz has taken Prince Luitpold's son Prince Ludwig under his wings and helped him to prepare for his future role as Head of the House.
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Also dann bedeutet es dass der Freund von mir doch Recht hat wenn er behauptet dass Prinz Ludwig der Nachfolger wird...:ermm:
Aber gut, ich nehme an dies ist noch nicht offiziel angekündigt oder gesetzlich festgelegt?

translation: so, then it means that my friend was correct when he claimed that Prince Ludwig will be the successor. But good, I assume that this is not yet officially announced or determined by law?
 
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Ralf said:
Also dann bedeutet es dass der Freund von mir doch Recht hat wenn er behauptet dass Prinz Ludwig der Nachfolger wird...:ermm:
Aber gut, ich nehme an dies ist noch nicht offiziel angekündigt oder gesetzlich festgelegt?
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At some point Prince Ludwig will of course be the Head of the Royal House. A the latest when Duke Franz, Duke Max and his father have paseed away.
 
Stefan said:
Perhaps Duke Max has rennounced his rights, perhaps he has not. But even if he has it is not public known. We will have to wait and see what happens after the death of Duke Franz.
Waht i have heard from people who know such things is that Duke Franz has taken Prince Luitpold's son Prince Ludwig under his wings and helped him to prepare for his future role as Head of the House.
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Prince Ludwig told that in an interview with the Sueddeutsche Zeitung. He today works for 10 months a year in Africa as an unpayed development helper - he has founded an IT company in Kenia which helps Áfrican start-ups with organization, internet appearances, and all sorts of business needs for IT. His life there is supported by his family's money and in return for his apanage he does representational engagements for two months.



The article is from 2015 but when this year Duke Franz celebrated his 85th birthday, he got a portrait of himself from and painted by the Princess Gloria of Thurn & Taxis, which he deemed suitable to be auctioned off for charity (make of that whatever you want, Stefan:flowers:) and the money raised went to Prince Ludwig's projects in Kenia.



https://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/...r-froh-wenn-ich-nicht-erkannt-werde-1.2684865


His younger brothers Heinrich and Karl are already working in managing their father's companies and estates, so Ludwig can one day concentrate on his duties as Head of the family and House of Wittelsbach.
 
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Felipa, Princess of Bavaria, und Christian Dienst attended the opening of the Dallmayr Foodhouse in Munich on November 27:


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Ralf said:
I'm very well aware about how such succession works. But I read somewhere before that Duke Max, by a House-internal decree, bill, document or whatever, renounced his rights for succession in favor of their cousin Prince Luitpold.
Unfortunately I have no idea where I read it, so I also can't check it anymore and therefor I was hoping someone in here could help me with that.
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Just a guess, but could it be that the agreement is about the inheritance of Duke Franz's estate, so that it passes directly to Luitpold or Ludwig, rather than the headship of the royal family?
 
Kataryn said:
The article is from 2015 but when this year Duke Franz celebrated his 85th birthday, he got a portrait of himself from and painted by the Princess Gloria of Thurn & Taxis, which he deemed suitable to be auctioned off for charity (make of that whatever you want, Stefan:flowers:) and the money raised went to Prince Ludwig's projects in Kenia.

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/...r-froh-wenn-ich-nicht-erkannt-werde-1.2684865
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In dem Artikel steht ja deutlich erwähnt wie die Nachfolge läuft: zuerst Franz' Bruder Max, danach Luitpold und dann erst dessen Sohn Ludwig. Ich denke dies ist dann auch der richtige Folge.:flowers:

translation: the article clearly states how the succession will go: first Franz' brother Max, afterwards Luitpold and only then his son Ludwig. I think that this is the correct sequence.
 
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Leopold, Prince of Bavaria, participated in the charity action "Sternstunden Tag" of the Bavarian radio broadcasting in Munich on December 14:


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Leopold, Prince of Bavaria, and Ursula, Princess of Bavaria, attended the 23rd BMW Advent charity concert in Munich yesterday, December 20:


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Christian Dienst, husband of Felipa, Princess of Bavaria, was seen during the BUNTE & BMW Festival Night as part of the 69th Berlinale Filmfestival in Berlin on February 8:


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Leopold, Prince of Bavaria, and Ursula, Princess of Bavaria, attended the world premiere of Circus Krone Mandana in Munich yesterday, April 4:



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Max, Duke of Bavaria and Elisabeth, Duchess of Bavaria, attended the dinner held for the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall in Munich this evening:


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More about the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall's visit to Germany can be found here.
 
Wow! I thought they are done (Anna is 41, the youngest child - four and a half, older ones - in school age).
But surprises do happen.
Congratulations to the couple!
 
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Franz, Duke of Bavaria, attended the opening of the Museum of Bavarian History in Regensburg today, June 4:


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 **
 
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Franz, Duke of Bavaria, and Ursula, Princess of Bavaria, attended the opening of the "Munich Opera Festival 2019" in Munich yesterday, June 27:



** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** Pic 3 **
 
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Auguste, Princess of Bavaria, participated in the event "Women in Motion: Sustainability and Women Today" in Munich yesterday, July 2:



** Pic 1 ** Pic 1 ** Pic 3 ** Pic 4 **
 
Princess Ferdinand of Lippe-Weissenfeld's pearls
 
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Ludwig Heinrich, Prince of Bavaria, attended the Erich Greipl Tribute Tournament in Ismaning near Munich on July 6:



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Does Prince Manuel of Bavaria have succession rights to the defunct Bavarian throne?

Does Prince Manuel of Bavaria have succession rights to the defunct Bavarian throne? He was born an illegitimate child but later became legitimized once his parents married five years after his birth.
 
Futurist said:
Does Prince Manuel of Bavaria have succession rights to the defunct Bavarian throne? He was born an illegitimate child but later became legitimized once his parents married five years after his birth.
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It is not enough to have a legitimate marriage. One need to make a dynastic marriage. A marriage is dynastic when it is done within the conditions of the House Laws (read: an Ebenbürtige partner).

The second in the line of succession to the headship, Prince Luitpold, legally married Beatrix Wiegand, a lady neither royal nor noble. So this marriage was not dynastic. In 1999, in the twentieth year of this marriage, the Chef of the House (without issue and his brother without issue as well) were confronted with the lack of successors and decided to declare the marriage of Luitpold (both his parents were from the House of Bavaria) dynastic.

By declaring this wedding dynastic, it had consequences for other legal weddings with "commoners" : these were declared as dynastic as well. So yes,since 1999 also Prince Manuel is a dynast and a successor but far down the line:

Franz Prinz bon Bayern, Herzog von Bayern (1933)
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01. Max Prinz von Bayern, Herzog in Bayern (1937)
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02. Luitpold Prinz von Bayern (1951) x Beatrix Wiegand
--. Auguste Prinzessin zu Lippe-Weißenfeld née Prinzessin von Bayern (1979)
--. Alice Prinzessin von Auersperg née Prinzessin von Bayern (1981)
03. Ludwig Prinz von Bayern (1982)
04. Heinrich Prinz von Bayern (1986)
05. Karl Prinz von Bayern (1987)
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06. Florian Prinz von Bayern (1957) - a priest
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07. Wolfgang Prinz von Bayern (1960) x Beatrice Gräfin Lodron-Laterano
08. Tassilo Prinz von Bayern(1992)
09. Richard Prinz von Bayern (1993)
10. Philipp Prinz von Bayern (1996)
----------------------------------------------------------
11. Cristoph Prinz von Bayern (1962) x Gudila Gräfin von Plettenberg-Lenhausen
12. Corbinian Prinz von Bayern (1996)
13. Stanislaus Prinz von Bayern (1997)
14. Marcello Prinz von Bayern (1998)
--. Odilia Maria Prinzessin von Bayern (2002)
----------------------------------------------------------
15. Leopold Prinz von Bayern (1943) x Ursula Möhlenkamp
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16. MANUEL Prinz von Bayern (1972) x Anna Prinzessin zu Sayn-Wittgenstein
17. Leopold Prinz von Bayern (2007)
--. Alva Prinzessin von Bayern (2010)
18. Gabriel Prinz von Bayern (2015)
----------------------------------------------------------
18. Konstantin Prinz von Bayern (1986)
--. Maria del Pilar Prinzessin von Bayern (1978)
--. Maria Felipa Prinzessin von Bayern (1981)
----------------------------------------------------------
19. Adalbert Prinz von Bayern (1944) x Sandra Burckhardt
--. Bernadette Désirée Prinzessin von Bayern (1986)
20. Hubertus Prinz von Bayern (1989)
 
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Futurist said:
Also, Yes, I get that one needs to have a dynastic marriage in order to become a dynast and that marriages could retroactively be considered dynastic. The question is whether a person who was born illegitimate into a dynastic marriage but who later became legitimized could be put into the line of succession into the Bavarian throne.


The answer to this question in the French context would have been No. Louis XIV tried to put his illegitimate-but-subsequently-legitimized sons into the line of succession to the French throne and this action of his was quickly reversed by the parlement of Paris after his death--with the logic being that princes du sang have to be born rather than made.
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I think it has go with the changing of times. In modern times, royal families have been very lenient in their rules thereby retroactively considering morganatic marriage to be dynastic or even legitimizing illegitimate children after a dynastic marriage.

Yes, Prince Manuel is in the line of succession but he's far down the line.
 
theroyalfly said:
I think it has go with the changing of times. In modern times, royal families have been very lenient in their rules thereby retroactively considering morganatic marriage to be dynastic or even legitimizing illegitimate children after a dynastic marriage.

Yes, Prince Manuel is in the line of succession but he's far down the line.
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Where did the Bavarian house laws state that illegitimate children after a dynastic marriage become eligible to inherit the Bavarian throne, though?


If I recall correctly, the 1999 amendments to the Bavarian house laws transformed various non-dynastic marriages into dynasties marriages but didn't actually say anything about putting illegitimate children in the line of succession even if their parents subsequently married and their marriage was considered dynastic. If I am wrong about this, it would be interesting to take a look at where exactly in the Bavarian house laws it states otherwise.
 
Futurist said:
Where did the Bavarian house laws state that illegitimate children after a dynastic marriage become eligible to inherit the Bavarian throne, though?


If I recall correctly, the 1999 amendments to the Bavarian house laws transformed various non-dynastic marriages into dynasties marriages but didn't actually say anything about putting illegitimate children in the line of succession even if their parents subsequently married and their marriage was considered dynastic. If I am wrong about this, it would be interesting to take a look at where exactly in the Bavarian house laws it states otherwise.
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I'm sorry but what I commented is in general as I'm not an expert in Bavarian Succession Laws.
However, it is safe to assume that there might have been some changes since Prince Manuel is in the line of succession and his parents subsequent marriage did not affect it either.
 
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Ursula, Princess of Bavaria, attended the Anna Netrebko recital and charity dinner during the "Munich Opera Festival 2019" yesterday, July 17:



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Elisabeth, Princess in Bayern and her husband Daniel Terberger attended the 50 years anniversary celebration of fashion brand s.Oliver near Würzburg, Germany, today, July 19:



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