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04-19-2010, 06:37 PM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The, United States
Posts: 1,996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAPretender
It was verified with the California Public Records. Prior to that time, her press agent was representing that she was 32 years old until it was definitely proven - by someone here at TRF! - that she was in fact much longer in the tooth. At that time, she was 39. At the time that she represented herself to the New York Times as being 22, she was actually 25 years old.
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Well what woman hasn't lied about her age at some point.  I think she looks good for her age.
It's too bad that they might not be able to have children. It's such a tricky situation they're in. I can understand them not wanting a child out of wedlock. I wonder how much $ they would lose by just going ahead and getting married.
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04-19-2010, 06:54 PM
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Nobility
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: , Italy
Posts: 273
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04-19-2010, 07:32 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: WPB FL/Muttontown NY, United States
Posts: 854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royalsmartie
Well heck thats a good deal and he doesnt need a royal just a courtess or lady someone who needs money and would sign on the dotted lines
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Wow. And I thought that *I* was cynical.
Guido - is that the same family that last year had a new baby? I think she skipped that baby's baptism for one in the Danish Royal family back then, too.
God, that would be pretty sad.
Oh my dear Lord, after reading those articles, it seems that the wife found her husband dead and called the police. I can't imagine anything more devastating than finding your husband, the father of your children, shot dead. So she had a new baby and a dead husband....and a stepfather-in-law who killed himself after it all. That young woman must be beside herself.
It certainly puts the issue of tiaras in perspective, doesn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereta
Well what woman hasn't lied about her age at some point. I think she looks good for her age.
It's too bad that they might not be able to have children. It's such a tricky situation they're in. I can understand them not wanting a child out of wedlock. I wonder how much $ they would lose by just going ahead and getting married. |
I've lied about my age, but the other way; when I was in college, I was waaayyy underage :-) I do know that Botox is not a good look, though.
To me, it's not a sticky situation at all, it really isn't. Gustav knew exactly what he had to do to keep the money, and he doesn't want to do that. To me, it's him being spoilt. And it's unfair to her although she does get that distant rubbing of royal shoulders and a terrific wardrobe to boot; she knows exactly what she's getting.
And they can absolutely have children! If you look back at the previous thread, Jo of Palantine had a solution that recently came about in German law for domestic partners; they can marry religiously but not civilly, and any children born of the union are adopted by Gustav, and there is the solution.
But they don't want to do that, and they are perfectly willing to squander any ability to have children in order to keep the life that they have now (and clearly like an awful lot.)
I just can't see why there are people who insist on seeing this as a tragic circumstance that requires a solution in marriage and children. (Or in the exploiting of another woman as a brood mare! Good GOD!)
It's pretty clear that they can have marriage and children but aren't willing to pay the price - to me anyway, and in my opinion based on what I can see and what can be known.
What will happen if they just continue to bump along in their playworld is that Gustav will die and everything will go to his cousin; if that cousin is dead, then to that cousin's son. If Gustav pre-deceases her, what does she have? Nuttin. But they know that.
They're gambling, because their attorneys must have told them clearly that the chances of overturning the will are slim.
But that's their choice. And if it's their choice - what the heck is so maudlin and tragic and sad and poor-them-ish about this?
(I'm saving my sympathy and pity for her sister, the wife of a murdered man.)
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04-19-2010, 09:09 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Philadelphia Region, United States
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I did not know that Carina had a sister (hence brother in law). I thought that she only had a sister.
Please enlighten me.
I also share the views of Not a Pretender; they know exactly what they are doing.
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04-20-2010, 04:00 AM
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Nobility
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: , Italy
Posts: 273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michelleq
I did not know that Carina had a sister (hence brother in law). I thought that she only had a sister.
Please enlighten me.
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Yes, Carina has only one sister Liselott, her husband Richard Jones was shot and killed by his stepfather James Alexander Chimblis last Thursday. I feel very sorry for her and 3 young children. This shooting was a nightmare for the family.
MSNBC article
2 Dead In Santa Cruz Mountains Shooting - KSBW-TV - msnbc.com
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04-20-2010, 04:06 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Middlewich, United Kingdom
Posts: 21,343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAPretender
Wow. And I thought that *I* was cynical.
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It seems you have competition. 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
Yes, Carina has only one sister Liselott, her husband Richard Jones was shot and killed by his stepfather James Alexander Chimblis last Thursday. I feel very sorry for her and 3 young children. This shooting was a nightmare for the family.
MSNBC article
2 Dead In Santa Cruz Mountains Shooting - KSBW-TV - msnbc.com |
Killed by his stepfather. How awful, and for the wife to find him dead.
If the shooting happened hours before the concert performance? Is it possible that Carina wasn't informed until after the celebrations? 
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We Will Remember Them.
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04-20-2010, 10:34 AM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: WPB FL/Muttontown NY, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumutqueen
It seems you have competition. |
Shocking, isn't it? 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumutqueen
Killed by his stepfather. How awful, and for the wife to find him dead.
If the shooting happened hours before the concert performance? Is it possible that Carina wasn't informed until after the celebrations? |
I suppose anything is possible; however, Mrs. Jones (wife of the murder victom) called the police at 7:30 am on Thursday morning, which would be 4:30 pm in Copenhagen, still on Thursday. The celebrations for Queen Margarethe began Friday morning at the Town Hall in Copenhagen, so it's nearly impossible to believe that family members weren't informed. It's not as though volcanic ash clogged the telephone lines; I've been on the phone (and Skype!) continually since the volcano popped its cork.
Mrs. Jones (Liselotte Axelsson,) had a baby last year at the same time as Marie of Denmark's child was baptized, and Gustav's girlfriend stayed in Denmark for those celebrations rather than her own niece's, so this seems in character.
I realize not all families are the same, but I would have been on a train to points south then on an eastbound flight to California across the Pacific if my sister had found her husband murdered - no matter if I missed a tiara photo op or not. It's not like there was a paucity of guests to attend the Queen's birthday, or that one less begowned and bedazzled bit of arm candy was a make-or-break guest at such an event. The Royal Family of Denmark seems human enough to understand such an absence. I would have thought a great deal more of Gustav and his girlfriend if they had made a humane choice and skipped this celebration to be with family, but they didn't. She didn't, and he didn't, and they didn't.
Again, it comes down to choices again, doesn't it? There is a ruthlessness about their approach to life that leaves me cold. It's far, far, far from a "fairy-tale" of thwarted love, that's for darned sure.
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"Me, your Highness? On the whole, I wish I'd stayed in Tunbridge Wells"
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04-20-2010, 11:20 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ~, United States
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Giov-
How do you know that this family is related to Carina? I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious about how you knew the sister was married and had children. Her family (until now) has seemed to fly under the radar, and it didn't seem like there was much info out there regarding them.
What a tragic and horrible thing! It sounds like he has two very young children. I'm not making excuses for anyone, but it is possible that Carina didn't learn of this until much later. Her sister was probably in shock and dealing with authorities. She may not have even thought to call Carina until much, much later (maybe even days later). However, if she did speak with Carina, then I agree with everyone else. It is very strange that she would attend any of these events. She should have been at home trying to find a way to get back to the US. Of course, everyone handles situations differently. Either way, this is just a tragic and horrible thing. I wish that the victim's family is able to ultimately find peace and comfort.
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04-20-2010, 02:23 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hiawassee, United States
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Carina seemed ver glum, so obviously she knew about her sisters situation
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04-20-2010, 03:54 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: WPB FL/Muttontown NY, United States
Posts: 854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyndaW
Carina seemed ver glum, so obviously she knew about her sisters situation
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Not glum enough to let it interfere with her party attendance, and she was not required to attend events in Copenhagen by birth or marriage - that was purely by choice.
I wonder if she wants to forget about her family (at least her sister anyway) and subsume herself into her boyfriend's family instead? I mean, she's ditched them on the two most significant life events that there are - birth and death. Hard to top that, I must say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgl
Giov-
Either way, this is just a tragic and horrible thing. I wish that the victim's family is able to ultimately find peace and comfort.
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Amen, sgl. Amen.
Guido, the airspace is open for business especially southbound. A good friend of mine left Oslo this morning for Jakarta, and I myself have taken the Emirates flight from Dubai to San Francisco which is another option. If she wants to go, there are lots of options.
ETA....
I just read another of those links. The children were also at the scene! Oh, if they saw their dad...
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04-20-2010, 04:07 PM
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Administrator
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Unless one knows the specifics regarding the relationship between Carina and her sister (and her family) as a whole, aren't we pretty much speculating?
We don't know if she knew or not about the tragic circumstances of her brother in laws death...we don't why she didn't attending her neice's christening..we are just guessing and assuming the worst about hte personality of someone we don't know...or am I missing something?
Furthermore, it does appear that Gustav and Carina can marry but give up the title and fortune...but the question is why should they? Isn't it his birthright? I am not trying to malign anyone's heirtage or go off on a tangent...but I find the he must marry an Aryan to be a little off center and dare I say it...meanspiritied. Would this not be a problem if it wasn't Carina who he wanted to marry? Even if he loses this battle or Carina...I would think that this needs to be removed for future generations. Someone has to fight the battle...why not Gustav?
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04-20-2010, 04:15 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: WPB FL/Muttontown NY, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk
...I would think that this needs to be removed for future generations.
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He's the only person it affects, Zonk. His children or any other heirs beyond the direct heir to the grandfather are unaffected. And since it's property, the courts have found (in other similar cases) that such wills can be upheld unless they contravene human rights. They'd be on much stronger legal ground if the grandfather had just said "you simply can't marry unless she's X, Y & Z." They would also be on stronger legal ground if the restrictions were in perpetuity, meaning beyond the Head of House heirship to the grandfather. There are some really specific guidelines on who can be named and while you can skip a generation (as was done here,) you cannot skip the next generation or bind generations beyond. If the grandfather had, it would be as easy as falling off a Prince to overturn the will.
The will is from the 1940's when the grandfather of Gustav was fighting under arms for Germany, and skipped a generation for specific wealth preservation purpose, not as a meanspirited gesture to disenfranchise Prince Richard, Gustav's father - which one could place as an interpretation looking back through a modern lens at it. It adheres to the language of the day, including the means by which property was expected to be held and distributed after a final Nazi victory. It was designed to keep property, money, timber, natural resources, edifices, etc. within a defined legal space to prevent dissipation by future heirs and to anticipate who would be able to legally hold property in that future national landscape; by the time it went into effect, much property had been taken from those in Nazi-occupied areas including the Fatherland from those who were outside of that legal landscape. That the legal and moral landscape has changed, evolved, matured, and moved away from those mores does not effect the efficacy of the language or its legal enforceability; it carries no morality in either direction, it only reflects the legal landscape in which it was drawn. My diploma's 1693 language refers to me as a "youth, upright and well-born" (albeit in Latin,) but the language of this day would scarcely call me that. (insert your own joke here!)
I don't see Prince Richard having raised too much hue and cry about being overstepped for the headship of the house, and Gustav never spared a scruple for these restrictions either. Not until his bankbook was affected, that is. :-) He'd still get to keep the title which is his by birth....but since technically titles have long been abolished in Germany, quite honestly she could call herself whatever she liked and so can he. It's the money (and all that it implies) that this is about, not some human or civil rights issue. If it were just such an issue, then Gustav's sisters should be the ones carrying the banner; after all, Princess Alexandra married in accordance with the will and has legitimate children, and the only thing barring her from succession is her sex (not her choice,) instead of her partner (which is a choice.)
As I've said before, my sympathy is with young Mrs. Jones, burying her second spouse. I hope that her father, mother and brother have rallied 'round her.
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04-20-2010, 04:58 PM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ~, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
The victim's wife Mrs Jones is Liselott Axelsson, Carina's sister. Richard Jones was Carina's brother-in-law who was killed by his stepfather James Chimblis last Thursday, at the same day when was gala performance in Denmark.. Liselott and Richard have 3 children, the eldest girl from Liselott 's first marriage (her 1st husband also died tragically 4 years ago). Liselott has become widow again.
This is so horrible especially because of Carina's nieces. They are very young and the eldest girl have already lost her second father. I feel sorry for them. Condolence to the family. I hope Carina will able to go home to California for the funeral because of volcano ash.
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Thank you for answering my question, Guido (and I'm really sorry that I called you by the wrong name in my previous post), but how do you know that her sister is married to this man? Where did you get that information? I don't recall ever seeing anything about her sister in the news before, and I have never read anything about her sister's name.
Not a Pretender-I'm curious about the information in the will; specifically, this part that you posted:
"which one could place as an interpretation looking back through a modern lens at it. It adheres to the language of the day, including the means by which property was expected to be held and distributed after a final Nazi victory".
Did it use this term "Nazi victory"? If it did, wouldn't that be grounds for having the will thrown out in court since we all know that there was no Nazi victory? Did it make any stipulations for a Nazi defeat? I am not a legal scholar, but I would think that if this was based on a Nazi victory, they might have a chance to throw it out (if they want to, that is).
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04-21-2010, 04:50 AM
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Aristocracy
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In the land of milk and honey, United States
Posts: 224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk
Unless one knows the specifics regarding the relationship between Carina and her sister (and her family) as a whole, aren't we pretty much speculating?
We don't know if she knew or not about the tragic circumstances of her brother in laws death...we don't why she didn't attending her neice's christening..we are just guessing and assuming the worst about hte personality of someone we don't know...or am I missing something?
Furthermore, it does appear that Gustav and Carina can marry but give up the title and fortune...but the question is why should they? Isn't it his birthright? I am not trying to malign anyone's heirtage or go off on a tangent...but I find the he must marry an Aryan to be a little off center and dare I say it...meanspiritied. Would this not be a problem if it wasn't Carina who he wanted to marry? Even if he loses this battle or Carina...I would think that this needs to be removed for future generations. Someone has to fight the battle...why not Gustav?
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YES zonk he has to stop this he just has too! Even if it means giving up his true love. For his family name his line! His birth right ! His children's birthmark! Him and Carina can have kids latter or adopt but he has to marry if he can't fight the courts and provide a heir its his duty!
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04-21-2010, 11:53 AM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
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Guido, you still haven't answered my question. How do you know that this man's wife is Carina's sister? There haven't been any names mentioned regarding the wife. Was her marriage in the news? Do you have that article?
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04-21-2010, 12:20 PM
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Can I just get this straight?
Carina has two sisters?
Both of whom are married, and both husbands have been killed recently?
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04-21-2010, 01:06 PM
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Majesty
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If I understood it correctly, Ms. Axelsson has got a sister, who lost two husbands.
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04-21-2010, 01:58 PM
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How awful, that makes everything a million times worse. Now I don't understand why she hasn't flown home.
The only reason, if her and her sister no longer get along.
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This is the reason why Carina wore dark gown at theatre. She lost her 2nd brother-in-law, too. Her 1st brother-in-law also died tragically.
