Electoral and Grand Ducal House of Hesse (Brabant)

[Driven]

Arms of the Grand Duchy of Hesse-Darmstadt​

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Hi, I'm new here :flower:

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this but anyway, I've found an interview with Philipp von Hessen ("The king of Finland"). Unfortunately it is in Finnish but if anyone's interested I can translate it for you

Missä Suomen prinsessa on, Philipp von Hessen?

 

[Driven]

Alright, here is the translation. Sorry for all the mistakes, my English is not very good

Philipp von Hessen, where is the princess of Finland?

"The king of Finland" doesn't go to the sauna and can't ski either.

After the independence war in 1918 Finland decided to become a monarchy. If this had really happened, you would be the king of Finland now. But where is the princess of Finland?

Probably in New York.

Are you Finnish, German or American?

If I can choose I'm German-Finnish. I'm absolutely not an American even when I live in the US now. My mother Tatiana is half-Swedish and my father Moritz is Italian. I'm very European and that's the way I want to stay.

You are a photographer by profession. Which royals did you photograph the last time?

I just did... eh, I can't speak about it yet as I've made an agreement to stay silent about it. After my visit to Finland last summer my career has gone well. I've just photographed fashion photos for the Vanity Fair magazine and did some campaign photos for AOL Time Warner. You get good money for those!

Kuukausiliite (the magazine where this interview was published) invited you to Finland last summer. You met atleast the president, a metropolitan, a porn star...

And that freak UFO reseacher!

Yes, Johan af Grann. Who made the biggest impression?

I met a lot of interesting and weird people. I remember the the visit amazinly well. Like this trip to Helsinki too, being a guest on a TV show (called Hyppönen Enbuske Experience) was really silly fun.

Is the king...

I'm not a king.

... allowed to party till the morning hours?

Everyone does that, why not me.

Can you ski?

I'm too lazy for cross country skiing, it's so sportif.

Do you eat sauna sausage?

I eat anything. No, I don't, I don't eat ravioli, I got enough of it when I was in boarding school. And I don't go to sauna...

Are you already accustomed to Euro?

No. I so seldomly visit Germany. The value is easy, just like a dollar, but if asked what a 10 € bill looked like I wouldn't know.

What is the best thing in Finland: silli (a type of fish), Nokia or the women?

The combination of those three.

That's not good for an answer.

It's my answer: all three of them.

You have to choose one.

Alright: the women. Finnish women are beautiful and very funny.

What do you think of the war in Iraq?

I'm absolutely against the war but we have to remember one thing: Saddam Hussein is the most terrible dictator, he's like Adolf Hitler, he kills his own people and behaves aggressively towards other cultures and countries. Thanks to the Americans, the British and the French got Hitler out of power before. I'm against this war but I'm happy when this guy won't have the power anymore.

If you were George W. Bush, what would you do right now?

I don't want to be him. I cannot stand him nor his politics.

There are a lot of problems in the Royal house of Britain. What should they do?

The press in England is very aggressive so the royal family don't have things that easy. Perhaps the royals should come closer to the reality and be more open. I don't think the Brits are worse than anyone else but they have to live with such mean papers as the Sun and the Mirror.

Last summer you said that if Finland will become a monarchy you'd compete for the place of the king. Do you still hold that promise?

Of course, I will keep that promise for the rest of my life!

I've heard that you can't write properly. I assume you have a secretary?

No, I don't have one but I try to avoid writing, I'm so bad at it. Someone can't see the colours, I can't tell words from each other. I can of course write but I wouldn't write an open letter if someone wouldn't correct all the mistakes before it was published.

This interview will be published a week after your visit. Do you think the Finnish people will still remember you then?

Those who I have met will but the others won't. Why would they?

 

[tipper]

Marie Cecilie of Mountbatten

I wonder if any1 can tell me about her death, and that of her 2 sons, her hubby, too- why wasn't joanna with them, how come she only lived til 1939, dying at 3 years old, the cause of the air- crash, and where to find pix of Cecile and her family, I mean her kids. thanx !

 

[wittykitty]

It's very tragic, the family were flying to Britian with other family members for a couisn's wedding but Johanna was too young so they left her behind. The weather turned bad and the plane crashed all the passengers were killed . The biography on her mother HRH Princess Andrew, by Hugo Vickers has more information. The cousin and new wife adopted the girl but she got sick and died of menigistis later.
wittykitty

 

[tipper]

It's very tragic, the family were flying to Britian with other family members for a couisn's wedding but Johanna was too young so they left her behind. The weather turned bad and the plane crashed all the passengers were killed . The biography on her mother HRH Princess Andrew, by Hugo Vickers has more information. The cousin and new wife adopted the girl but she got sick and died of menigistis later.
wittykitty

thanx, Joanna was also very unlucky-I'll check P Aliceìs website.

 

[kelly9480]

You'll probably find more information if you use her real name. Cecile of Greece and Denmark, or Cecile of Hesse-Darmstadt. She wasn't Marie Cecilie of Mountbatten at any point in her life and is never called such. "Cecile" is sometimes written as Cecilie, Cecilia, Caecilie.

 

[Charles]

She wasn't even a Battenberg. She was an Oldenburg and Princess of Greece & Denmark.

 

[Val3275]

It woud be interesting to ask all these questions to her youngest brother, Philip, Duke of Edimburgh, prince consort of England...

Did you check that webpage ? http://www.geocities.com/jesusib/Victoria.html There is one picture of Cecilie's mother, Alice. Maybe you can start from there...


Valerie.

 

[betina]

She wasn't even a Battenberg. She was an Oldenburg and Princess of Greece & Denmark.

She was not an Oldenburger but a Glücksburger

 

[elenaris]

Her Mother was a Battenberg ( or mountbatten)

 

[morgaine]

Cecilie of Greece was the third Child and also third Daughter of Andreas of Greece and his Wife Alice of Battenberg. She was born on 22 June 1911 and is the older Sister of Prince Phillip. On 2. February 1931 she married Georg Donatus of Hesse Darmstadt, who was a relativ from her mothers Side. Together they had 3 Children: 1. Ludwig born 25. Oktober 1931
2. Alexander born 14. April 1933 and
3. Johanna born 20. September 1936

On the Day of the 16. November 1937 Cecilie and her Husband Georg Donatus and their two Boys Ludwig and Alexander as well as her Mother in Law Eleonore took a plane to go to England to attend the Wedding of Georg Donatus ` brother Ludwig to Margaret Geddes. The plane crashed and they never arrived.
Ludwig and his new wife Margaret took care of little Johanna, who died on 14. June 1939 of Meningitis.

Now I try to add some Pictures and I hope it is working !!!

 

[kelly9480]

Her Mother was a Battenberg ( or mountbatten)

That doesn't make her a Mountbatten. The only Mountbatten from the Greek royal family is Philip, and he only selected the name because the Windsors wouldn't let him use a different name.

 

[lashinka2002]

What a sad story. A whole family line wiped out. You'd think the little girl would have lived to be an adult but no the forces of evil had to send her Menegitis. How horrible & devestating for the extended family.

 

[Charles]

She was not an Oldenburger but a Glücksburger

The Glücksburgs are all members of the house of Oldenburg.

 

[betina]

The Glücksburgs are all members of the house of Oldenburg.

But still the danish kings are devided in Oldenburgs (Christian 1. - Frederik 7.)
and the Glücksburgs (Christian 9. - Margrethe 2.) and Cecilie belongs to the Glücksburgs because she is a decendant (male line) through Christian 9.

 

[kelly9480]

Constantine considers the Greek Royal House to be Glucksburgs, and Margrethe calls the Danish Royal House Glucksburgs, too. So I don't think it would be accurate for any of us to call them Oldenburgs when they say they are something else.

 

[Warren]

House & Family Names

Constantine considers the Greek Royal House to be Glucksburgs, and Margrethe calls the Danish Royal House Glucksburgs, too. So I don't think it would be accurate for any of us to call them Oldenburgs when they say they are something else.

In 1448 when King Christopher III died, the direct line of succession became extinct. The Danish nobility declared a descendant of Eric V, Count Christian of Oldenburg, king. The Oldenburgs, in one form or another, have ruled Denmark ever since.

Over the centuries the Oldenburg line divided into various branches (eg Kings of Denmark, Grand Dukes of Oldenburg, Dukes of Holstein, Holstein-Glucksburg, Holstein-Augustenburg, Holstein-Sonderburg etc).

When the direct line failed in 1863 a subsidiary branch of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg came into play, and inherited the throne. The main line of S-H-S-G continued to reign over their Duchy in Germany until 1918, and the current Duke still retains the family properties today.

As an analogy... assume all the descendants of Queen Elizabeth II and Princess Margaret were wiped out. The Throne of the United Kingdom would pass to the next in line, the Duke of Gloucester. King Richard IV could legitimately claim to be of the family of Gloucester, of the House of Windsor, as he would be both. Or, going back further, the Houses of York and Lancaster were just branches of the House of Plantaganet.

So, yes, the immediate Family name is S-H-S-Glucksburg, but of the House of Oldenburg.
.

 

[kelly9480]

No, Constantine said he considered the House to Glucksburg, not just the name. Margrethe calls it the House of Glucksburg, as does Harald. None of them call their houses Oldenburg, regardless of what genealogy may dictate. (Same thing with how EIIR calls herself a Windsor, though she's from the Wettins, and Philip calls himself a Mountbatten, though he's not).

 

[Warren]

What's in a name?

Yes, perhaps they prefer the Danish Glucksburg to the more German Oldenburg.
Just as the Luxembourg House dropped the Bourbon-Parma (although keeping the Royal Highness dignity that came with it!). And while the Belgians are of the House of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha (ie Wettin), they don't advertise the fact. On the Belgian RF website I couldn't find any mention of either House name or Family name.

So I guess they use whatever name they think most convenient.
In genealogical terms, the House of Oldenburg is significant because it gave Kings to Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Greece (and will do so for Great Britain when Charles ascends the throne), Emperors to Russia, Grand Dukes to Oldenburg, and Dukes to Schleswig-Holstein. A very successful dynasty!
.

 

[kelly9480]

I was told that the Belgian royals had changed their dynasty name to "of Belgium" around WWII, though I never found any info to back that up.

 

[Alexandra]

I, too, am very interested in this tragedy and have myself asked about it in another royal message board. And I remember getting answered that Cecilia was pregnant, when the plane crashed. Then a dead baby's body was found in or near the crushed plane. It seems then that Cecilia gave birth just before the accident or the baby come off out of Cecilias ripped body. Sounds horrible.
Has some other heard of this story? It is quite true as far as I know.

 

[Alexandra]

Cecilie of Hessen-Darmstadt

I try to add a couple of photos of the Hessen family.

And I am very sorry, but I don't know any more where I got the pictures from.

In the first picture are little Johanna with her uncle Ludwig and his wife.
In the second picture are the Hessen family, Donatus, Celilia and the children.

 

[Alexandra]

Celilie and Donatus

GEORG DONATUS Wilhelm Nikolaus Eduard Heinrich Karl, Hereditary Grand Duke of Hessen and the Rhine, Darmstadt 8.11.1906-Steene, Ostende 16.11.1937, married in Darmstadt (civ) 23.1.1931 (rel) 2.2.1931

Cecilie Pss of Greece and Denmark, Tatoi 22.6.1911-Steene, Ostende 16.11.1937, married in Darmstadt (civ) 23.1.1931 (rel) 2.2.1931

Children:

Ludwig Ernst Andreas, Darmstadt 25.10.1931-Steene, Ostende 16.11.1937

Alexander Georg Karl Heinrich, Darmstadt 14.4.1933-Steene, Ostende 16.11.1937

Johanna Marina Eleonore, Schloß Wolfsgarten 20.9.1936-Darmstadt 14.6.1939

 

[Alexandra]

More about Cecilia and the accident

At last I found this addresse:

http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/Greek_Royal_Family.htm#16.74a


"Hereditary Grand Duke Georg Donatus, his wife Princess Cecilia, two sons, Alexander and Ludwig, and his mother, Princess Eleonora, were killed in an aeroplane accident near Ostende. Princess Cecilia was eight months pregnant at the time of the crash and the baby's body was discovered amongst the wreckage. The party were on their way to CroydonAirport to attend the wedding of his brother Prince Ludwig of Hesse and by Rhine to Margaret Geddes." 5.2143 16.73

"Princess Johanna died later of meningitis. She had been adopted by her uncle Ludwig following the tragic death of her parents and siblings."

 

[wymanda]

At last I found this addresse:

http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/Greek_Royal_Family.htm#16.74a


" Princess Cecilia was eight months pregnant at the time of the crash and the baby's body was discovered amongst the wreckage. "

Amazing how easy such things were back then. Today she would not have been allowed to fly that late in her pregnancy!
I've actually been surprised how much travelling Pncss Maxima is doing so late in her pregnancy.

 

[kelly9480]

Women are not banned from flying until the last 3 weeks, and we don't know how far into the 8th month she was.

 

[Alexandra]

Was it a thunderstorm, the plane got crashed? I seem to have read it was.

 

[Warren]

Fog

Was it a thunderstorm, the plane got crashed?

I believe it was heavy fog, the plane was flying too low, and it crashed into an industrial chimney.

 

[Warren]

Belgians and S-C & G

I was told that the Belgian royals had changed their dynasty name to "of Belgium" around WWII, though I never found any info to back that up.

kelly9480, still investigating this. On the Belgian RF website everyone is "of Belgium", but no mention of House or Family name, or "Dynasty" name.

This is what Wikipedia says:

Royal House

The term Royal House refers to the official designation and name of a royal family instead of surname.

Unlike Europeans, most of the world's Royal Families do not have surnames: those that have adopted them rarely use them. They are referred to instead by their titles, often related to an area ruled or once ruled by that family. The name of the Royal House is not a surname, just a way of identifying individuals.


Reigning European Sovereign Houses

• Belgium: Saxe-Coburg-Gotha

.

 

[Charles]

The fact that they call themselves Glücksburg doesn't negate the fact that they belong to the house of Oldenburg.

I can call myself anything I want, but I still being to the von Hamm family.